Charging While Driving w/ Gas Generator in Bed (Range Extender for F-150 Lightning) - Testing

[chl]

Believe me, I've spent many nights laying in bed ballparking all these numbers in my head. I don't see anything majorly off about your numbers at first glance. It is certainly a thing you'd only do If your use case nd circumstances fit the need. Or your range anxiety is too high. Even if 1% of owners are interested in this, That's over a thousand people.

Yes, I agree, it might be right for some people's needs, I can see that.

If the infrastructure money for EV chargers doesn't get freed up, there may be stretches of charger dead zones out on the highway where something like this might be the best option.

I can remember the anxiety I felt running on fumes "in the old days" on some trips where gas stations were few and far between. So EV range anxiety is still a thing and I can relate.

Hopefully in the next 3 years, with battery improvements and more EV adoption, the infrastructure will grow even without the gov. subsidies.

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[bsilvertab]

Thank you for all the work you do on this project! I would be willing to beta test on my 23 ER with a few more details. Range is a problem for me primarily during the winter months. This would solve most of that problem.

 

[ZSC100]

Thank you for all the work you do on this project! I would be willing to beta test on my 23 ER with a few more details. Range is a problem for me primarily during the winter months. This would solve most of that problem.

You'll be happy to know I've already made provisions for valve control to add a heat exchanger to utilize the waste heat from the generator's exhaust. This will allow people to get all the generator's electrical power and not waste any of the precious electricity on heat. I just haven't needed or been able to really test this b/c of the weather in Tulsa. As soon as it starts getting cold I'll exploring this. I too feel the pain in the winter months. Utilizing waste heat from the ICE while driving will actually give better results than using the AC in the summer b/c you won't be wasting any on cabin conditioning. You also won't be wasting any on battery conditioning and can actually warm up your battery with the heat too. I actually think this will open up a huge market for this in the North. I've yet to figure out exactly how I'm going to demark the truck's closed loops with the generator exhaust heat exchanger and how I'll modulate it. It will have it's own CAN control module and will be 100% independent of the CWD product b/c I've had people asking for a while now for this system to use the little diesel heaters like this with it:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/VEVOR-D...pe-Space-Heater-ZCJRQLS12V8KWCO9JV9/327083816

In fact I'll prob start developing this in the next month as the weather cools off here in Tulsa. And be testing it standalone with the heater since that's how the concept was initiated. Sometime recently I was like, ding, I've got hot exhaust I can be using here.

 

[ZSC100]

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/diesel-heater-new-video-of-it-running.12863/

If you had not yet seen this thread.

I have not. Awesome, thx

 

[Grumpy2]

In fact I'll prob start developing this in the next month as the weather cools off here in Tulsa. And be testing it standalone with the heater since that's how the concept was initiated.

This would be very interesting, it seems there could be less intrusive solutions that would allow greater range in cold weather without using battery capacity.

 

[Username Not Found]

Love that you are doing something to create more options for Lightning owners (unlike the keyboard warriors). I understand the difficulty getting a factory style to plug between the existing connectors but that would make for a more compelling product rather than having to tap any wiring. The warranty voiding factor and risk of improper install can be scary.

A former forum member and YouTuber had created a range extender with a Tesla battery on a trailer, but he was tight lipped about what connections he made to make that work.

I think he left the forum after his Lightning got stolen/torched and sold the trailer with the knowledge of how to connect it. Not sure how similar your connection would be to his but it was interesting nonetheless.

I also find it ironic that people suggest they are too good to use gas now that they have an EV (annoyance of gas station visits aside)... I hope they're saying it in jest or they have their own solar array because there's something like 60% of the US grid that comes from Coal or Natural Gas. Not to mention the impact of battery manufacturing. It also spreads and reinforces the negative stereotype of EV owners feeling like they somehow have a moral high ground on ICE car owners (reference:South Park Smug Alert! episode). I hope you ignore their unhelpful and counterproductive noise. I would venture a guess that this forum isn't the best place to truly gauge your potential market as most of us bought the truck because we are able to make it work in at least 90% of scenarios, like you have stated. There are still people on the sidelines waiting for a solution to their use case. It would seem a company like Edison Motors proves that there is a lot of potential interest in something like this; with their (still in progress) retrofit system that has a similar but much more involved idea of taking an old truck and turning it into an EV with a diesel generator. Also, adjacent is the RAM REV which seems to have a lot of interest but we'll see if people show up for it. I also like that your system would potentially give someone the option to package a generator or additional battery into a different form factor such as a Truck Box, trailer, or creative use the "frunk" (probably more in the way of batteries for the latter) if they need it more permanently.

Keep up the good work, very interested to hear more when Martin's video comes out.

 

[Coffee4matt]

Fascinating!

 

[potato]

I'm kind of in the camp that this would not be needed for the vast majority of use cases. But intrigued by the possibilities. If I wanted to drive to Tuktoyaktuk, today, I would definitely need a generator. My current thought would be to charge while stopped, of course, since that's all these trucks can do off the shelf. But doing some of it while driving might be better.

I'm slightly skeptical that the power could be added fast enough to make a meaningful difference while towing. Regular highway driving is 30-40 kW. Towing, that would be 60-80 kW. Supplying ~10 kW from a generator seems like a pretty minor improvement... It could help when crossing a charging desert like my hypothetical drive to Tuk of course, but in the real world, is that really an issue? Chargers are getting more common. As time goes on it will be less and less of an issue.

My other big worry is if you're doing a MITM, what if Ford does an update to encrypt communications on the bus.

On the other hand. An LFP battery pack in the bed would be a pretty sweet range extender if if was convenient to hook up, like your solution is meant to be.

 

[ZSC100]

I'm kind of in the camp that this would not be needed for the vast majority of use cases. But intrigued by the possibilities. If I wanted to drive to Tuktoyaktuk, today, I would definitely need a generator. My current thought would be to charge while stopped, of course, since that's all these trucks can do off the shelf. But doing some of it while driving might be better.

I'm slightly skeptical that the power could be added fast enough to make a meaningful difference while towing. Regular highway driving is 30-40 kW. Towing, that would be 60-80 kW. Supplying ~10 kW from a generator seems like a pretty minor improvement... It could help when crossing a charging desert like my hypothetical drive to Tuk of course, but in the real world, is that really an issue? Chargers are getting more common. As time goes on it will be less and less of an issue.

My other big worry is if you're doing a MITM, what if Ford does an update to encrypt communications on the bus.

On the other hand. An LFP battery pack in the bed would be a pretty sweet range extender if if was convenient to hook up, like your solution is meant to be.

Great questions. Regardless of how Ford reacts to Charge While Driving they will NOT do anything to thwart it with programming. Any changes like that would involve multiple modules across multiple vendors and the risk of side effects for the general truck population would be huge. They already have a giant cluster fuck that is OTA, trying to change anything that isn't absolutely necessary, especially with the HS1 CAN bus is out of the question.

Regarding rural charging dessert destinations, like camp sites, or remote locations without power I have seen interested in this to mainly charge at the destination, not necessarily CWD, but why not do both right This is particularly appealing to RV's with built in generators that could have an EVSE mounted with the charging cable reaching up to the bed for charging.

Currently I don't really have the programming for making the bed port active for normal stationary charging, but that is possible and it involves a minor hardware change. I'm working on it.

 

[queuewho]

I think there's a hidden value to this project beyond the use of a gas generator. We might get some super dense batteries in the future, so in another decade, if a small ecoflow/bluetti device can hold a lot more kWh, it would become a viable add-on for these trucks in their old age.

 

[ZSC100]

I think there's a hidden value to this project beyond the use of a gas generator. We might get some super dense batteries in the future, so in another decade, if a small ecoflow/bluetti device can hold a lot more kWh, it would become a viable add-on for these trucks in their old age.

Yes, thx, even now surprisingly(to me) lots are wanting to add batteries. What is awesome is that this mod does not touch the HVDC power bus, so ethically and legally IMO it does not affect the EV powertrain warranty.

 

[fhteagle]

Yes, thx, even now surprisingly(to me) lots are wanting to add batteries. What is awesome is that this mod does not touch the HVDC power bus, so ethically and legally IMO it does not affect the EV powertrain warranty.

So far the product / kit is only CAN intercept hardware and optionally physically touching the AC lines into the vehicle's onboard charger (to add the rear inlet shown)? Ford might still have a beef with just these parts even. Not sure how they'd prove modification induced failure, especially if the CAN intercept was removed and the problem persisted.... But never underestimate the lengths a warrantor will go to dodge paying for something lol...

Are you planning a different version that touches the HVDC lines a la James Klafehn, or no?

 

[ZSC100]

So far the product / kit is only CAN intercept hardware and optionally physically touching the AC lines into the vehicle's onboard charger (to add the rear inlet shown)? Ford might still have a beef with just these parts even. Not sure how they'd prove modification induced failure, especially if the CAN intercept was removed and the problem persisted.... But never underestimate the lengths a warrantor will go to dodge paying for something lol...

Are you planning a different version that touches the HVDC lines a la James Klafehn, or no?

Martin is b/c he wants more than 19kW, but It would involve the HVDC bus and a DC/DC converter and a lot more development.

I'm happy this far with the 11kW and that's what I plan to continue to test because it applies to everybody.

Without getting into details of the CAN comms and the way the BECM monitors things like temp and electrical aspects of the battery, there is really no way the onboard charger(s) can damage the battery. There are so many safeties built into so many modules that even what we are doing cannot cause damage. Lastly, there are multiple tale-tale signs that Ford already planned this. I just figured out how to enable it.

 

[Shaw1984]

I’m giving this a lot of thought to beta test. The other idea that popped into my head was a improved cooking loop and pushing the charge curve up. Being able to hold 180kw longer into the curve would greatly improve long distance travel or hauling. The current C rate is about 1.3C which honestly is not a lot. Ford is being very, very conservative on their charge curve. I also think the cooling loop might be undersized which also would dictate a lower c-rate on charging.

 

[ZSC100]

I’m giving this a lot of thought to beta test. The other idea that popped into my head was a improved cooking loop and pushing the charge curve up. Being able to hold 180kw longer into the curve would greatly improve long distance travel or hauling. The current C rate is about 1.3C which honestly is not a lot. Ford is being very, very conservative on their charge curve. I also think the cooling loop might be undersized which also would dictate a lower c-rate on charging.

I would love to see someone actually experiment with this kind of stuff, the problem is most people who have the knowledge and skills to actually tinker with this stuff are real world mechanics and engineers and thus too poor to just own a Lightning as a 2nd or hobby vehicle. We actually need our lightnings to get to work every day and live our lives. If I had a Lightning just sitting in my garage to leave in testing flux, I'd have had this whole project done long ago. I have to literally put my truck together every night when done so I can drive it to work the next day

On the improved cooling, I don't know that you'll get much more beyond the % SoC thresholds as I think those rates are somewhat dead recon, but if you are getting limited below 80% then yea, totally cooling things like the cables, connectors, etc is probably where you'll see the benefit. I don't fast charge much, so I don't really have much experience with holding the high currents over long spans of SoC.

And you're correct, Ford babies the batteries, but can you blame them a massive failure of modules before the 100kmi EV powertrain warranty would really hurt their bottom line. As if warranty expense isn't already killing them ((

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