Farley says Ford is behind in EV (vs. Tesla and China) so Ford can't afford to "walk away from EVs."

[RickKeen]

Make better software.
Software cost scales inverse with unit sales.
So you have to go big. Think Microsoft, Amazon, Apple. Never going to be able to afford good software for low volume products.

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[Newton]

Glad to hear, but honestly, as far as western states, Colorado and California are probably the major outliers.

Plus, there is a real difference between the "wide open west," and "away from the Interstate".

If you have some method of finding hidden chargers out west (divining rod?) besides PlugShare, I'd love to know about it....

You don’t know what you are talking about.

Signed…
Washingtonian who drives from Canada to Calfornia on the backroads in a *Standard Range* Lightning.

 

[EV Engineer]

Anyone who shows up at a Tesla charger that is incompatible is either uniformed or clueless.

This is such a myopic view of the problem it cannot be taken seriously. For a hobbyist / early adopter ---sure.

But for the average car buyer who has interest, reads that Tesla chargers are supported via Ford. Then sees a Tesla charger in their neighborhood only to realize its a V2 that is a huge issue. Not saying it's Ford's fault or Tesla's. But it's a massive growing pain of the industry.

It's great that you CAN drive coast to coast. America is getting there. But we just are not there. The fact that you're using 3-4 different apps and trying to figure out which chargers are compatible I would consider a massive headache if you weren't an enthusiast.

My wife is pro EV and loves the truck. I can tell you she does not like to fool with the vehicle if it's going to require a DCFC.


I think 800V architechure (cut charge times down 40% or so) and doubling the DCFC footprint is the solution. That is 3-5 years away minimum. We will get there.

We are not there.

 

[RickLightning]

This is such a myopic view of the problem it cannot be taken seriously. For a hobbyist / early adopter ---sure.

But for the average car buyer who has interest, reads that Tesla chargers are supported via Ford. Then sees a Tesla charger in their neighborhood only to realize its a V2 that is a huge issue. Not saying it's Ford's fault or Tesla's. But it's a massive growing pain of the industry.

It's great that you CAN drive coast to coast. America is getting there. But we just are not there. The fact that you're using 3-4 different apps and trying to figure out which chargers are compatible I would consider a massive headache if you weren't an enthusiast.

My wife is pro EV and loves the truck. I can tell you she does not like to fool with the vehicle if it's going to require a DCFC.

I used the words "uninformed or clueless". If one got/gets the adapter from Ford, it includes a big blue brochure inside (6 1/2 by 7 1/2 inches) that cannot be missed.

When opened, it clearly says "Use FordPass... to find designated Tesla Superchargers near you." It includes a graphic (see below) that explains where it works and doesn't work.

If you don't read the brochure, it's on you.
If you don't use FordPass to find a charger, it's on you.

If one scans the QR code, it brings up a page that says "How do I find designated Tesla Superchargers?"

If you go through forums / FB pages for the various manufacturers, you find post after post after post from people who went to numerous Tesla non-compatible locations and tried to charge. You find people who tried to use the adapter at a destination charger, and it didn't work. Or, vice versa.

The reality is that EVs aren't going to work for those that want to go through life not learning and understanding things. My wife doesn't want to know anything about fast charging, or planning a trip, that's on me. She didn't open the box, she didn't read the card, and she likely will never be DC fast charging without me. She is "uninformed". She isn't clueless.

People buy a $50,000 or $140,000 (Hummer EV) vehicle and don't read the manual. Then they don't know how to work anything, go on Facebook, and ask how to do something and get 27 different answers, half of them wrong. Society is doomed.

But, in reality, the vast majority of EV owners never need to charge away from home. My wife comes home, parks in the garage, and plugs in. In the morning, she unplugs and drives away.

That said, when the charger doesn't work, she has no clue. Troubleshooting electronics is not high on her list, nor many people's list. So again, not for everyone.

 

[Deleted member 22838]

This is such a myopic view of the problem it cannot be taken seriously. For a hobbyist / early adopter ---sure.

But for the average car buyer who has interest, reads that Tesla chargers are supported via Ford. Then sees a Tesla charger in their neighborhood only to realize its a V2 that is a huge issue. Not saying it's Ford's fault or Tesla's. But it's a massive growing pain of the industry.

It's great that you CAN drive coast to coast. America is getting there. But we just are not there. The fact that you're using 3-4 different apps and trying to figure out which chargers are compatible I would consider a massive headache if you weren't an enthusiast.

My wife is pro EV and loves the truck. I can tell you she does not like to fool with the vehicle if it's going to require a DCFC.


I think 800V architechure (cut charge times down 40% or so) and doubling the DCFC footprint is the solution. That is 3-5 years away minimum. We will get there.

We are not there.

From where we were 2-3 years ago, we are so much closer to being in a good position. It is so much better than then. I own a Tesla too and there are not a great amount of V2s I have come across.

 

[EV Engineer]

This photo is just more evidence to my point in my opinion. That charging station on the left looks exactly like a V2. This flyer is even more confusing to the lay person. I see a Tesla Super charger on the side of the rode that looks like the one the FORD flyer printed. Yet when I pull up it doesn't work? Even if I own an adapter?

I get it. There's apps and threads and pages on information. But the reality is trying to convince someone to buy a 50k technology and then imply that you're going to have to spend a few weeks getting used to it. And then youre best option is going to be to spend 45 minutes in the back of a closed mall parking lot.

That's a tough sell to the everyday american.

I love my truck. I love EV's. I think it is manageable to anyone who wants to buy one to travel anywhere they want.

I just think we disagree on the average person is willing to accept as a frictionless experience.

 

[richl025]

You don’t know what you are talking about.

Signed…
Washingtonian who drives from Canada to Calfornia on the backroads in a *Standard Range* Lightning.

Look, you're not talking about "backroads", you're just not on the main interstate.

Take a roadtrip to eastern Oregon, or Northern Montana. Then come back and tell me there is no infrastructure problem.

 

[Deleted member 22541]

I am glad I leased mine. I saw all the "sketchiness" happening with EVs and debated buying or leasing. In the end got a great lease deal and will turn back in 36 months. Now I don't have to worry about owning a discontinued model and all the crap that goes along with that.

If the world changes, maybe I can get something later.

Same here - 48 month lease and its great! (different reason; wanted to buy and get $7500 EV credit, but FORD didn't have VINs registered with IRS, so bumped up to PLAT lease which wouldn't qualify for EV credit due to MSRP over $80K) Wondering what the residuals will do with various possibile FORD strategies - I plan to buy this truck after 4 years, but nice to have the option to just "turn it in"

 

[SLOPRO]

Look, you're not talking about "backroads", you're just not on the main interstate.

Take a roadtrip to eastern Oregon, or Northern Montana. Then come back and tell me there is no infrastructure problem.

Just got back from an eastern Oregon trip. There is no L3 charging on Hwy 82 Northeast of LaGrande/Island city. 108 Miles from the Electrify America/Walmart to elk camp. I have to park at a L2 charger and sleep for several hours in order to make it to camp 48 miles from the L2 charging station and be able to return to the L3 charger 10 days later without getting stuck at another L2. On the 400-mile drive L3 charging adds 1 hour to the trip time. In addition, charging in the middle of the night at locations with zero facilities adds to the number of stops. The trip is possible with planning of course but I haven't met another person yet that would put up with that regardless of cost.

To make it more fun I despise Electrify America "double stack": charging stations which are surrounded with bollards and force you to barely open the damn driver's door and squeeze in and out of the truck. It's obnoxious, and the dispensers are frequently broken forcing you to move and repeat the process multiple times. One major advantage of travelling in the middle of the night is that out of the 4 chargers I can find the one that works without waiting.

 

[richl025]

Just got back from an eastern Oregon trip. There is no L3 charging on Hwy 82 Northeast of LaGrande/Island city. 108 Miles from the Electrify America/Walmart to elk camp. I have to park at a L2 charger and sleep for several hours in order to make it to camp 48 miles from the L2 charging station and be able to return to the L3 charger 10 days later without getting stuck at another L2. On the 400-mile drive L3 charging adds 1 hour to the trip time. In addition, charging in the middle of the night at locations with zero facilities adds to the number of stops. The trip is possible with planning of course but I haven't met another person yet that would put up with that regardless of cost.

To make it more fun I despise Electrify America "double stack": charging stations which are surrounded with bollards and force you to barely open the damn driver's door and squeeze in and out of the truck. It's obnoxious, and the dispensers are frequently broken forcing you to move and repeat the process multiple times. One major advantage of travelling in the middle of the night is that out of the 4 chargers I can find the one that works without waiting.

I hear you - it's the hunting trips in the backcountry where I sometimes question my decision to own an EV. For 99% of the time, it's fine, but that other 1% is important!

Just as important - did you get your elk???

 

[Danface]

How about this, stop making changes to the body and trim levels and take the same dollars and fix the software? I know what I'm saying ... Stop being a "Car Company" for a while and focus on the, all too important in the modern word, human interface to machine ... Or just get rid of it and go back to 1980, either way. ("Your door is a jar")

 

[Maxx]

and fix the software

I am not in the business but my outsider impression is that it is easier said than done. I don't think it is just a matter of buying smarter developers (although that definitely would help). The problem is Lightening is Frankensteined by slapping together tons of modules from different manufacturers. In order to get this Sh. Show under control, Ford either has to buy Rivian/VW brain and build a car around it or build a brain and body from ground up which is a completely different business model than mostly assembling what you get from your suppliers (including software). I am not saying Ford should not do what you are suggesting. I am just saying it requires heavy investment and risk.

I just think we disagree on the average person is willing to accept as a frictionless experience.

I don't think the two of you disagree on that. I think Rick is saying if someone does not want to deal with the tech, that is their loss. And you are saying it is the car company and environment's loss if we can't lower that friction. The fact is current situation is what it is, and it will inevitably improve.

In a supermarket, I am like a deer in a headlight. My wife is that way with the computer settings and DCFC charging. She does the food shopping and I do the charging. Both of us are smart enough to learn the other stuff but the amount of energy it takes to get comfortable in each area are different for each of us. Her smart phone is capable of much more than she uses it for but it is designed so what she needs the device for works seamlessly so she does not have to spend the time she rather put on her garden messing with the phone.

I used to have higher tolerance for spending time fixing stuff and making things work but As I get older and have less time, I am more conscious of how I spend it. Opportunity cost of having to deal with a badly designed system is something many refuse to pay. But we all know designing the perfect system on the first go almost never happens. So I stopped becoming an early adopter. Now I wait until a tech is mature enough for me to own. First gen Honda Insight intrigued me immensely but I waited for Lightning. I am glad I did. In the same way, that a lot of folks got into EVs long before me, there will be more that will get in them after.

 

[lipnorth]

Ford has already started with a ground-up EV car, with design and pretty good sales of the pretty successful Mach E Mustang, a ground-up EV platform which I had the great pleasure of pretty much driving into the ground (this is meant as a compliment to that car).

Just bought a used Mustang Mach-E (2021). You say you drove it into the ground. What specifically how many miles did you get out of it? What was its demise?

 

[lipnorth]

Unfortunately, I just think pick up truck drivers have a huge bias against EV’s that it is difficult to overcome. That in the lack of advertising and awareness only adds to the problem.

Look at this article where they drove a lightning in Texas and you can see the bias in action. And people were very ignorant about the existence of our features of the lightning.

https://apple.news/ArXFFhbivT2SgORwWTYJM1Q

 

[Danface]

I am not in the business but my outsider impression is that it is easier said than done. I don't think it is just a matter of buying smarter developers (although that definitely would help). The problem is Lightening is Frankensteined by slapping together tons of modules from different manufacturers. In order to get this Sh. Show under control, Ford either has to buy Rivian/VW brain and build a car around it or build a brain and body from ground up which is a completely different business model than mostly assembling what you get from your suppliers (including software). I am not saying Ford should not do what you are suggesting. I am just saying it requires heavy investment and risk.




I don't think the two of you disagree on that. I think Rick is saying if someone does not want to deal with the tech, that is their loss. And you are saying it is the car company and environment's loss if we can't lower that friction. The fact is current situation is what it is, and it will inevitably improve.

In a supermarket, I am like a deer in a headlight. My wife is that way with the computer settings and DCFC charging. She does the food shopping and I do the charging. Both of us are smart enough to learn the other stuff but the amount of energy it takes to get comfortable in each area are different for each of us. Her smart phone is capable of much more than she uses it for but it is designed so what she needs the device for works seamlessly so she does not have to spend the time she rather put on her garden messing with the phone.

I used to have higher tolerance for spending time fixing stuff and making things work but As I get older and have less time, I am more conscious of how I spend it. Opportunity cost of having to deal with a badly designed system is something many refuse to pay. But we all know designing the perfect system on the first go almost never happens. So I stopped becoming an early adopter. Now I wait until a tech is mature enough for me to own. First gen Honda Insight intrigued me immensely but I waited for Lightning. I am glad I did. In the same way, that a lot of folks got into EVs long before me, there will be more that will get in them after.

I drove dumb vehicles for 45 years before I got the truck and and I don't see how adding an app and letting Ford know everything about me is an improvment. I didn't really used the app when I got the truck back in Jan 2024 and I didn't accept the new "Terms and Conditions" that popped up about 6 - 9 months ago when I downloaded the new app so I just get in and drive it and it works great.

Funny thing, the truck is shop for the sceen blackout recall and they've been struggling with the software upgrade for the last 5 days. The only thing I don't like is the loaner (Explorer) isn't and EV, I can't wait to get the truck back!

BTW, I let them know I didn't accept the "Terms and Conditions" just in case that's the "problem"

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