High public charger pricing - war on EVs?

[RickLightning]

Tesla membership is $12.99 + tax which is around $14 per month. And it is not yet plug and charge. You still have to use the app to benefit from the membership pricing. We do have plug and charge via fordpass app but this will not activate the discounted rate as far as I know.

Depends on where you live. We pay $12.99. That's it, no tax.

And yes, you MUST activate with the Tesla app.

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[abcut973]

You are right on both counts, I'm in Canada so I pay more monthly and yes if I just plug in the Ford Pass app will start the charging... If I want the reduced Tesla pricing I start the app choose my location, charge station # and click charge... Still a lot easier than the alternatives... at this point.

I didn't realize you were in Canada

 

[Jseis]

So the monied set buys $$$ BEVs and swallows the retail charge costs. Those of us that charge at home at low rates shrug at occasional $.40-$.60 kWh costs because 95% of our charging is at ~$.06-$.15 at home.

If there was a sub $20K 2WD BEV it’d be a no brainer. Current IRS transportation reimbursable cost is at $.725 per mile.

 

[Karlos]

We stopped at the W. Broadway Needles CA Tesla SC & had lunch at the Wagon Wheel - chargers are in their parking lot. Great meal & cheap Electrons for CA ! Restrooms were old but clean. Were towing back a Karmann Ghia from Oakland to DFW

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

We stopped at the W. Broadway Needles CA Tesla SC & had lunch at the Wagon Wheel - chargers are in their parking lot. Great meal & cheap Electrons for CA ! Restrooms were old but clean. Were towing back a Karmann Ghia from Oakland to DFW

I don’t even like to maneuver my truck in their parking lot. How’d you do with the trailer? Did you have to drop it?

 

[hturnerfamily]

I don't understand or agree with the argument of 'well, it's more expensive to DC Fast Charge in a Lightning' versus a gas vehicle on the same route... but, that's very short-sighted. An EV only has to use public charging WHEN traveling outside of the home base, in most cases. But, gas owners ALWAYS have to pump gas, no matter how and when and WHERE they drive... everyday, all the time.

You might can make a case if you have an EV owner with no at-home charging options, using DC Fast Charging for most of their miles... but, I'll bet when you look at a long-term stance, financially speaking, with very little if any MAINTENANCE for EVs, you might not even then rise to the same cost.

 

[Karlos]

I don’t even like to maneuver my truck in their parking lot. How’d you do with the trailer? Did you have to drop it?

Came in off the alley/gravel resembling a road, on the right side of your pic & jacknifed the truck & trailer to hit the second from right SC - didn't block the entrance. No other cars in the lot when we arrived. I remember the parking lot as being gravel as well - this was early May. One of the few spots I didn't take a charging pic - it was 105dF. Only had to take the trailer off twice the entire trip -once at a 8 stall Tesla spot at a Best Western in Patterson CA & the other at Tucumcari NM hotel to charge. I was a truck driver in a previous life

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I don't understand or agree with the argument of 'well, it's more expensive to DC Fast Charge in a Lightning' versus a gas vehicle on the same route... but, that's very short-sighted. An EV only has to use public charging WHEN traveling outside of the home base, in most cases. But, gas owners ALWAYS have to pump gas, no matter how and when and WHERE they drive... everyday, all the time.

You might can make a case if you have an EV owner with no at-home charging options, using DC Fast Charging for most of their miles... but, I'll bet when you look at a long-term stance, financially speaking, with very little if any MAINTENANCE for EVs, you might not even then rise to the same cost.

Agreed.

I run a simulation of the total cost of ownership for any vehicle I buy. I also run it for friends/family who are considering buying a vehicle and want to compare options (including keeping their current vehicle).

What I do is for each vehicle I run 10,000 to 100,000 simulations across a wide variety of realistic gas prices, electricity prices, miles driven, years owned, depreciation, yearly costs, and etc., etc., etc.

Recently someone asked me to run it for their situation to compare between a $55k Subaru gasser and a $113k Rivian R1S. Given their specifics, after about 7 years, the total cost of ownership for the Rivian will likely be less than for the Subaru.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Came in off the alley/gravel resembling a road, on the right side of your pic & jacknifed the truck & trailer to hit the second from right SC - didn't block the entrance. No other cars in the lot when we arrived. I remember the parking lot as being gravel as well - this was early May. One of the few spots I didn't take a charging pic - it was 105dF. Only had to take the trailer off twice the entire trip -once at a 8 stall Tesla spot at a Best Western in Patterson CA & the other at Tucumcari NM hotel to charge. I was a truck driver in a previous life

It’s a weird lot that feels like gravel but seems to have some tarmac underneath. I’ve been (sometimes) stopping there for several years. But when it’s very hot out, I stop at the EA or at the Yucca EVGo since those are covered and they perform better in the heat than I’ve seen with the brand-T adapters.

 

[WXman]

The Georgetown EA is 64 cents. 43% of 131 is 56kWh. 56 x 64= $36... Had you joined EA's membership prior to charging for $7, you would have saved $9 on that one charge and saved $2 net.

This is where trip planning comes in. Tesla north and southwest of there would have been much, much cheaper.

1) My first attempt at public charging was at a brand new row of Tesla chargers that were installed 6 months ago. Found out the hard way that Tesla locations are not all compatible and cannot always be trusted to save the day.

2) How far you have to drive to get to chargers with a lower rate can eat some of or all of the savings.

 

[Karlos]

It’s a weird lot that feels like gravel but seems to have some tarmac underneath. I’ve been (sometimes) stopping there for several years. But when it’s very hot out, I stop at the EA or at the Yucca EVGo since those are covered and they perform better in the heat than I’ve seen with the brand-T adapters.

Actually we moved over from the covered (as I recall) E Broadwy SC's as we were looking for somewhere to eat & noticed the W Broadway SC's which looked like were close to the restaurant. For sure we had the climate control on for 10 minutes before we departed !! I've been all about cheap gas my entire life & same goes for electrons

 

[WXman]

And I agree with Scorpio3d that the $40 that WXman saw was a hold, not the total charge. That is VERY common. Might take a day or two before the correct value shows up on your credit card account.

And so far (never used Walmart - none here), I have never had any real issues with public charging. I have used Tesla, Electrify America, BP Pulse, PowerFlex, EVGo, and CalTrans for fast charging, and Shell Recharge, ChargePoint, and Tesla Destination for L2 charging. My only complaint is the requirement to have a bunch of different apps on my phone...

No, definitely not a hold. The exact amount was $39.35 for 43% of a battery charge.

What ticks me off is that I DID also get charged $10 by EA for an "auto-reload" amount which I was forced to set up in the app, cannot understand, nor can I remove that in the app. There are 4 options, and $10 is the least amount I can choose. So, I got hit TWICE for that 43% charge session. We won't even get into how that translated into half the range I would have gotten for the same money with my F-250.

And, as you noted, that was after downloading yet ANOTHER app on my phone and signing up for yet another account. It's a total PITA compared to hitting a gasoline or diesel pump.

I don't understand or agree with the argument of 'well, it's more expensive to DC Fast Charge in a Lightning' versus a gas vehicle on the same route... but, that's very short-sighted. An EV only has to use public charging WHEN traveling outside of the home base, in most cases. But, gas owners ALWAYS have to pump gas, no matter how and when and WHERE they drive... everyday, all the time.

You might can make a case if you have an EV owner with no at-home charging options, using DC Fast Charging for most of their miles... but, I'll bet when you look at a long-term stance, financially speaking, with very little if any MAINTENANCE for EVs, you might not even then rise to the same cost.

Wait a minute, you're talking about two different things. I have yet to see a 400 mile long EV charge station cord. So are we talking road tripping? Or are we talking daily commuting around home? Those are two different topics.

If we're talking road tripping, then yes it IS more expensive, more time consuming, and more privacy invasive due to the litany of apps you have to keep to charge an EV truck. Like I said before, if I was somebody who had to rely on public charging it would absolutely be a deal breaker for me. At that point it is totally not worth it.

I'd gladly spend 15 minutes changing my oil and filter twice a year to avoid having to deal with public charging.

Now, if we're talking daily commuting close to home then yes I'll agree that home charging is sweet. 5,300 miles and I've solely charged at home until this week.

 

[RickLightning]

1) My first attempt at public charging was at a brand new row of Tesla chargers that were installed 6 months ago. Found out the hard way that Tesla locations are not all compatible and cannot always be trusted to save the day.

2) How far you have to drive to get to chargers with a lower rate can eat some of or all of the savings.

1) Yes. User error. Ford adapter has a big blue card that no one reads.

2) Malarkey. I speak from experience. Malarkey.

 

[Thunder⚡️ Lightning]

Love the run down. How’d you

get all this information recorded ABRP?
BASED on this gas prices were $4.60? Please clarify The math. We are taking my standard range lightning on a trip in late february from ny to New Mexico-cali-back to NY.

We just took a 2500 mile road trip through AZ and CA.

• Total distance: 2,508 miles
• Total energy used: 1,201 kWh
• Average efficiency: 2.1 mi/kWh
• Total cost: $376.58
• Cost per mile: $0.15
• DC fast-charge stops: 11 (plus some hotel charging)
• Elevation gain/loss: 42,681 ft each
• Max elevation: 7,364 ft
• Min driving temp: 37°F (27°F recorded)
• Max wind gusts: 65 mph crosswinds

Conditions were not EV-friendly (cold temps, wind, mountains, heavy DCFC use).

But if we had a gassy vehicle and had driven that, we would have paid significantly more.

Vehicle	MPG	Fuel Used	Total Cost	Cost per Mile	Cost relative to Lightning
2.7L EcoBoost	20 mpg	~125 gal	~$581	~$0.23	-$205
3.5L EcoBoost	19 mpg	~132 gal	~$611	~$0.24	-$235
3.5L PowerBoost Hybrid	23 mpg	~109 gal	~$505	~$0.20	-$130
F-150 Lightning (actual)	—	1,201 kWh	$376.58	$0.15	—

We could have, of course, saved even more if we’d driven the Mustang, but it’s not as comfortable as the Lightning.

Last year, we did a longer trip along much of the same route in late November instead of late December. We got 2.33 miles/kWh on that drive and averaged $0.13 mile.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Love the run down. How’d you

get all this information recorded ABRP?
BASED on this gas prices were $4.60? Please clarify The math. We are taking my standard range lightning on a trip in late february from ny to New Mexico-cali-back to NY.

Most of the data were recorded via CarScanner.
I sampled gas prices through gasbuddy along the same route to get an average.
I took samples of wind speeds via the windspeed maps available online.

You may experience lower temperatures, but you will probably encounter far better wind speeds than we did. I don’t know what the weather will be like—it’s become weirder and weirder all the time.

I have a hard cap on the truck but not an over-the-cab camper, so your wind resistance will be higher.

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