Ford CEO Jim Farley Totally Regrets Ford F150 Lightning Pickup

[FirstF150InCasco]

Linda Zhang LinkedIn is here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/linda-zhang-bb699b7/

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[chl]

The relevant paragraphs for anyone not inclined to click. Added brackets to clarify speaker.

The F-150 Lightning seemed to be selling well at first, but after you'd expanded to meet higher-than-anticipated demand, it didn't go as planned. Looking back at the Lightning, would you do it differently?

[Farley]I totally would've done it differently. I mean, look, we didn't know what we didn't know.

When did you realize you'd done EVs wrong?

[Farley]When we ripped apart a Tesla with Doug Field [Ford's chief officer for EVs, digital, and design, formerly of Apple and Tesla]. I was just absolutely flabbergasted. The Mach-E's wiring harness was 70 pounds heavier and 1.6 kilometers longer. We didn't know what was going on in [Tesla engineers' ] minds. But now we understand. They had no prejudice. We had prejudice. We'd gone to our supply-chain person and said, "Buy another wiring harness." [Tesla] said, "Let's design the vehicle for the lowest, smallest battery." Totally different approach.

The problem for 'legacy' automakers in a nut shell - too much old design 'baggage.'

 

[DavidS]

In all of this discussion, we need to remember that the Lightning was primarily a reaction to the Cybertruck announcement. With the consumer interest and Elon’s sales projections, Ford needed a product fast to protect the company’s base profit maker. The Lightning is over engineered and risk adverse design but it was never going to be profitable unless they sold 100’s of thousands a year. But we need another 5-10 years of battery technology and charging infrastructure to support those kinds of sales.

 

[chl]

They cut the price drastically, (albeit for 10 days) on a Cybertruck, and sold out it seems that inventory.

ECON 101 Price Theory in action.

 

[msingh]

The problem for 'legacy' automakers in a nut shell - too much old design 'baggage.'

Agreed but I don't understand the comment from Farley. As I understand the process, manufacturers beat themselves up to save two cents. But his example is we went to procurement and just said 'get another harness'? So no thought to numbers of wires, distance, connections? That didn't catch that obvious difference in the Tesla, before they went to procurement? That is not baggage, its negligence.

 

[Wendy]

Farley seems to get it now, that Software is a huge component of any new vehicle. I hope they invest there, as I think the BEV portion of the truck is great. They will change their tune in 3 years and get back on the bandwagon.

 

[ClevelandBeemer]

The whole F150 Lightning saga is a shame. It’s a great vehicle that probably would have been amazing on its second generation. Instead of Ford taking those first gen learnings and making a better truck, they decide to throw in the towel.

I know this topic has been beaten to death, but it’s Ford’s fault that the truck didn’t sell better.

1. Zero, and I mean ZERO marketing.
2. Not cracking down on dealer markups.
3. Not making the ER Pro available to those that wanted it. Ford needed to have a $49,999 ER variant with 9.6kw PPO that was actually available for anyone to buy.
4. Assuming that the average truck buyer would purchase a $70,000 to $90,000 truck.
5. Failing to educate the average truck buyer of why they would want a Lightning.

I do hope that the Lightning returns. Hopefully with a unified compute architecture and sodium or solid state battery tech. As first gen products go, Ford did an excellent job.

 

[chl]

I waited a long time for an electric pickup truck that wasn't a bunch of 12v batteries wire together in the bed.

So when Musk announced the Cyber-mess I jumped along with over a million others and got a reservation - an EV pickup for $40k! Even if it was kind of ugly, and the bullet-proof window shattered, I'm game.

I was glad when Ford announced the Lightning which I also had a reservation for.

Then a lot of $hit happened beyond the automakers control.

Ford got to market first but the price was jacked way up and dealership around here were putting big premiums on then as much as $15,000!

Nobody wanted to sell me a Pro either, only for fleet buyers.

Tesla also jacked the price up.

Both reservations I cancelled.

Finally ECON 101 Price Theory kicked in and the prices came back down to earth, plus we could get the tax credit up front, and I could get a Pro model with almost everything I wanted for under $50k.

I was happy. I still am.

I can work around the 12v battery failures with a maintainer - had to do that with my 2012 Nissan Leaf for years (bought in Dec 2011) and the 12v battery is still at about 80%.

The Bluetooth drop-outs and disconnects? I just use an SSD formatted in xfat with my music files through the USB, or use an FM transmitter and an unused FM freq.

The HIS troubles I avoid thanks to the videos and posts here and elsewhere, kind of a disappointment though, it was a good selling point, if it had been reasonably priced and actually worked reliably for everyone.

A transfer switch with the PPOB is good enough - I already was set up with a gas generator transfer switch, input box, etc. so not a big deal to add a second one that switched neutrals for the Lightning.

While it is not perfect, so far it has been close (Jan 2024 to now) with only minor-ish annoyances.

I feel for those with more serious issues to deal with - hoping I do not experience anything more serious in the near future - knock on wood.

I think the Lightning could have been improved rather than cancelled, but the new EV pickup, if Ford follows through competently, should be a winner.

I think Ford might have recouped their investment over time, but a lot of factors must have influenced the decision, like tariffs and the anti-EV animus of the current Congress leadership and administration in Washington. Things should/could be better in 2027 when the new truck comes to market.

Financial decisions are complicated, and, tax laws and 'bean counters' probably played a role. I get it. It's a business. We're just faceless consumers.

But will Ford be able to compete effectively with the Chinese if the barriers to their entry into the US markets were not there? Can their new design compete with other PU Truck makers, Slate, Rivian, etc.?

Perhaps if they do it right, and don't forget ECON 101 Price Theory when they market it.

 

[chl]

The whole F150 Lightning saga is a shame. It’s a great vehicle that probably would have been amazing on its second generation. Instead of Ford taking those first gen learnings and making a better truck, they decide to throw in the towel.

I know this topic has been beaten to death, but it’s Ford’s fault that the truck didn’t sell better.

1. Zero, and I mean ZERO marketing.
2. Not cracking down on dealer markups.
3. Not making the ER Pro available to those that wanted it. Ford needed to have a $49,999 ER variant with 9.6kw PPO that was actually available for anyone to buy.
4. Assuming that the average truck buyer would purchase a $70,000 to $90,000 truck.
5. Failing to educate the average truck buyer of why they would want a Lightning.

Exactly.
I had to wait until Jan 2024 to get a Pro with 9.6kW PPOB for under $50k with the tax credit up front, plenty of them available by then.

 

[ClevelandBeemer]

Exactly.
I had to wait until Jan 2024 to get a Pro with 9.6kW PPOB for under $50k with the tax credit up front, plenty of them available by then.

Unfortunately the damage was done by 2024. Ford needed to max production capacity early on to get word of mouth out there since they didn’t market the truck at all. Especially for fleets.

 

[CD4TNF]

Linda Zhang is (was?) the Chief Engineer on the F150 Lightning project:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Zhang?wprov=sfti1#

Thank you Linda wherever you may be, for building the best truck I've ever owned.

Here's some interviews and news clips of Linda, including from @Aminorjourney .

 

[CD4TNF]

In all of this discussion, we need to remember that the Lightning was primarily a reaction to the Cybertruck announcement. With the consumer interest and Elon’s sales projections, Ford needed a product fast to protect the company’s base profit maker. The Lightning is over engineered and risk adverse design but it was never going to be profitable unless they sold 100’s of thousands a year. But we need another 5-10 years of battery technology and charging infrastructure to support those kinds of sales.

Thank you for point this out. I just looked up the waitlist.

End of 2021 Cybertruck had 1.2million reported on the waitlist.

End of 2021 the Lightning waitlist had 200,000.

Big difference trying to compete with those waitlist numbers.

For context in Dec 2021 the hype was real:

• Ford stopped accepting reservations for its electric F-150 Lightning pickup truck on Wednesday.
• Ford says it has raked in nearly 200,000 reservations. That's years of production capacity.
• "We've closed reservations so we can start accepting orders," the company said.

That means some reservation holders won't get a 2022-model-year truck. "Invitations to order a 22MY will continue to be sent to reservation holders until 22MY production is fulfilled. Remaining reservationists will be invited to order in subsequent model years," the spokeswoman said. Non-reservation holders will get the opportunity to place an order "for later model years," she said.

After seeing high demand for the truck, Ford announced in September that it would invest an additional $250 million and hire more people to accelerate the truck's production. The automaker initially planned on volumes of 20,000 per year, Farley told Automotive News.

https://www.businessinsider.com/for...ations-closed-production-release-date-2021-12


Then we had record inflation in the 2022 economic bounce.

 

[davehu]

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a70394562/interview-jim-farley-ceo-ford-motor-company/

Not as much as I regret buying a Ford

the subject line of this post is totally bogus. Nowhere does Farley say "he regrets the Lightning. click bait

 

[davehu]

I think that Ford over reacted to the initial customer excitement with reservations, the plant expansion was a waste of money, should have waited a couple more years before considering increasing production capacity.

Remember how many folks interested in the basic Pro? These folks were disenchanted when they could not place orders due low availability, many walked away not being convince to pony up for a higher trim.

Covid's impacted all aspects of the economy, but the substantial constraints of technology, made it harder for way too long to produce product at planned prices.

Federal incentives going away and the aluminum supplier capacity restrictions were the nail in the coffin.

Exactly. along with range anxiety

 

[swajames]

The relevant paragraphs for anyone not inclined to click. Added brackets to clarify speaker.

The F-150 Lightning seemed to be selling well at first, but after you'd expanded to meet higher-than-anticipated demand, it didn't go as planned. Looking back at the Lightning, would you do it differently?

[Farley]I totally would've done it differently. I mean, look, we didn't know what we didn't know.

When did you realize you'd done EVs wrong?

[Farley]When we ripped apart a Tesla with Doug Field [Ford's chief officer for EVs, digital, and design, formerly of Apple and Tesla]. I was just absolutely flabbergasted. The Mach-E's wiring harness was 70 pounds heavier and 1.6 kilometers longer. We didn't know what was going on in [Tesla engineers' ] minds. But now we understand. They had no prejudice. We had prejudice. We'd gone to our supply-chain person and said, "Buy another wiring harness." [Tesla] said, "Let's design the vehicle for the lowest, smallest battery." Totally different approach.

You left out an important answer that was between the two you posted.

[C&D] For me, it's hard to escape the fact that COVID's effect on car sales was record profitability, as limited numbers of silicon chips were diverted to the most expensive vehicles, which sold remarkably well, perhaps faking out a generation of product planners. Because ultimately, there's a limit to how much people can afford to pay.

[Farley] COVID totally was a false signal. Post-COVID, and during the chip crisis that was a result of it, there was such high demand for all vehicles. If you could build a vehicle, you were going to sell it basically at 30 or 40 percent higher prices than before COVID. And I guess it didn't take us long to learn that our internal-combustion-engine prejudice was so high that we hadn't designed the [electric] cars right. We had a Mustang [Mach-E], we had an E-Transit, we had a Lightning, and people loved these products. The problem was they were never going to pay the cost we put into the vehicle.

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