Ford CEO Jim Farley Totally Regrets Ford F150 Lightning Pickup

[Jseis]

Gas prices here pushing $5.00/gallon and electricity at $.064/kWh. Do we care about diesel or gas prices anymore? Nope. The MME and Lighting have a combined 120K+ miles between them and have saved us serious $$$.

When I bought my PSD F250 in ‘99, diesel was cheaper than gas. Well those days are long gone.

FYI… Farley works for the board of directors whose executive chair is Bill Ford. The Ford family owns significant controlling shares of Ford stock and runs the company. I suspect Bill Ford and Jim Farley are pretty much on the same page.

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[Kev12345]

Yea... just spitballing, but this is my hope how it plays out. Do the write offs now knowing there is no reason to hemorrhage more money the next few years. Feel out the EREV full size market / buyer and hopefully make some profitability progress with EUV platform that can be applied to a Full size (it will be expensive) real BEV truck... Maybe 2032 or so they are ready to take another crack at Full size BEV.

you guys wait until the 2030's to get a half-assed American EV. We'll be driving vehicles with BYD blade 3 batteries by then up here in Chin... I mean Canada!

 

[Robocop]

The relevant paragraphs for anyone not inclined to click. Added brackets to clarify speaker.

The F-150 Lightning seemed to be selling well at first, but after you'd expanded to meet higher-than-anticipated demand, it didn't go as planned. Looking back at the Lightning, would you do it differently?

[Farley]I totally would've done it differently. I mean, look, we didn't know what we didn't know.

When did you realize you'd done EVs wrong?

[Farley]When we ripped apart a Tesla with Doug Field [Ford's chief officer for EVs, digital, and design, formerly of Apple and Tesla]. I was just absolutely flabbergasted. The Mach-E's wiring harness was 70 pounds heavier and 1.6 kilometers longer. We didn't know what was going on in [Tesla engineers' ] minds. But now we understand. They had no prejudice. We had prejudice. We'd gone to our supply-chain person and said, "Buy another wiring harness." [Tesla] said, "Let's design the vehicle for the lowest, smallest battery." Totally different approach.

Thank you for parsing this out in this way. I'm not sure I agree with the other posts blaming failed marketing, or the price point, the dealers or any of that. Those points may be fair and they may be factors in the demise of this product that we own and love but the CEO isn't talking about any of that here.

I agree with the other poster who thought that not dismantling a tesla product to conduct an autopsy on their processes earlier on was a massive error. The CEO all but admitted that in this statement. It seems like Ford attacked the EV problem with the legacy manufacturer mindset - the old school approach to building old-school vehicles - without considering if there was a better way to do things. It seems like they didn't consider if there could be a better way of doing things at all. They for sure rested on their laurels a bit whatever those laurels are.

The statement about the Mach-E's wiring harness seems to say it all: their strategy was inefficient, bloated and expensive without them realizing it. They then realize this is a monumental blunder that probably cuts right to the philosophical core of all of the research and development they've been doing under the old way of thinking, so that could also be why they killed the T3 project despite all the pomp and circumstance about it. To write all of that off and walk away is unthinkable, and yet they did it. They realized their "approach" had to change and they said it themselves aloud publicly. An elekrek article I read about this that uses the exact same quotes mentions that they even learned new stuff about placing things like clips and fasteners so less of them could be used overall leading to lower manufacturing costs. This is bean counting on a psychopath level.

So it makes sense they would kill the Lightning but not also killing the Mach-E makes less sense to me in this context. Whatever.

At first I was trying to be optimistic about this, thinking Ford would learn and better themselves and the future products. But in reality they've realized the floor is way lower than they ever could have imagined and now their minds have been opened to all of the possibilities and presumably unimaginable profits given the bar is now significantly lower. They've realized how much less they can still do that people will still tolerate! this isn't good, it is awful.

If the takeaway from this is that Ford is going to weaponize the cost cutting process in this way then all of this is in fact very sad distressing news for the customer. If you have gripes about the level of quality and workmanship now, just you wait! tesla is changing the auto industry and is setting new standards but it is doing this in the worst ways possible to the detriment of everyone. Crazy price points, laughable build quality, horrible customer support and a surprisingly disposable product are the new norms I guess. They for sure will not cut costs here in favour of using higher quality materials there.

Learning from them is one thing but to cut bait with what you are doing to change direction to run behind them to catch up is madness in my opinion. This is how schoolkids fail exams. Eyes on your own paper! Don't let the unprepared overconfident blabbermouth get in your head and undo all your the hard work leading up to the big day! you got this!!!

"sigh"

 

[Stubedo]

Wonder how much it will be to "import" this from Canada?

 

[DaBlue357]

The only regret is that the American public is and has been beguiled by the capital interests of oil.... for how long now?

Let's not fool ourselves that a viable and profitable BEV truck isn't possible. It is inevitable.

Battery tech/efficiencies in design/economies of scale will come together in a few years and instantly cannibalize the entire market including EREV.

I have a hard time believing that Ford is this naive though. I think cancelling the Lightning and this talk about EREV is just short term smiley face for the American public. The have to be hedging a future of their flagship product and protecting their market share.

 

[JMD359]

Really who cares if he regrets it ? How could he not? It’s been a financial disaster for ford, most of which they brought on themselves for bringing to market a truck that couldn’t be produced at a profit and for selling it thru existing Ford dealers who were clueless about the product and who were taking advantage of customers with insane cap cost adjustments of 10-20k over sticker .

 

[WillGrey1907]

Not even Tesla has made a truck that can fly down the highway at more than 2.5mi/kWh. It’s a bit foolish to expect a vehicle with the frontal area of a full-size truck to be efficient! That’s not why we buy full-size trucks, ICE or electric. The Lightning was a technological success, and a marketing failure. Of course, the price of gasoline falling to historic lows in 2025 made EVs less attractive, at least to those who weren’t buying them to save the planet.

EVs sure do look good with gasoline prices spiking through the roof at the moment. Can't do much about short-sighted buyers. We've been through this with the 2000s SUV craze as well. Once gas spiked many regretted getting a gas guzzler.

 

[Robocop]

As a reference point, the first gen Tesla Roadster only sold about 2500 total and still managed to create a healthy aftermarket support network including upgrades to the battery. It did help that Tesla was willing to support the aftermarket. If Ford is willing to do the same and given the relatively modular design of the Lightning, I think there’s some good opportunities out there for future battery and charging improvements on existing Lightnings.

I am with you on this. I'm never getting rid of my truck so I'm waiting for this. We've already learned the SR and ER packs can be swapped in and out without requiring programming thanks to one person who tried it. I am confident it will happen.

 

[lipnorth]

Well with the price of gas flying higher he may be kicking himself for no longer having a current EV truck. Will take years to deliver its next-gen truck.

I agree Ford should learn how to make the truck more efficient (lighter, smaller battery), but stay the EV course.

With three EV’s and solar, I am not worried how much gas costs at the pump.

 

[gregoryhcain]

Why didn't Ford keep the Lightning and grow into it as a specialty line. Certainly the gas F-150's are "paying the freight" for the time being while Ford learns. Chevy only sells 25,000 Corvettes a year, maybe 50,000 on their recent best years and somehow they find it worthwhile to produce. Frankly I love my Lightning and am very disappointed they dropped the full size EV Truck line for an EREV. My Lightning meets everyone of my requirements, even my towing requirements. Sure they could do things better, but I thought that they could still do better in a full size truck without scrapping it. EREV to me is something I don't want for something I'll never use, and I suspect the vast majority of truck owners will never need either. I am betting that in a few years when the EREV does come out it will bomb. They could have moved on to 800V, better battery tech like the Chinese, faster charging and maybe the "holy grail" of solid state (we'll know in another week or two if Donut is a hoax or real). I am afraid that when Ford brings out their EREV or their midsize EV truck, I will be moving on to a Silverado EV, a Scout, and if Tesla ever stops making it butt ugly, perhaps a Cybertruck.

 

[Nikos]

I remembered when we were getting the first Lightnings, (Lariats and Platinums), that we were suckered into buying expensive trucks.
I didn’t feel that way, but now I don’t know what to think anymore.
To my surprise, I got a damn good truck at a reasonable price.
No regrets, no buyers remorse, just a good deal. Only time will tell if Ford made the right decision or a big mistake by discontinuing the Lightning.
Let us see what happens in couple years. Change in the administration and its regretful policies towards EVs and renewable energy technologies.
Just like my solar panels on my roof.
Have no regrets on putting them on my roof 5 years ago. I know what my electric bill is, even with 2 EVs charging, and is at least 50% less or more than my neighbors bills are.
Another good deal at the time that has payed off.

Seems to me that we bought $120,000 trucks for $70,000.

 

[Nikos]

I am on the same boat with you.
I agree wholeheartedly.!!!!!

 

[CD4TNF]

Thank you for parsing this out in this way. I'm not sure I agree with the other posts blaming failed marketing, or the price point, the dealers or any of that. Those points may be fair and they may be factors in the demise of this product that we own and love but the CEO isn't talking about any of that here.

I agree with the other poster who thought that not dismantling a tesla product to conduct an autopsy on their processes earlier on was a massive error. The CEO all but admitted that in this statement. It seems like Ford attacked the EV problem with the legacy manufacturer mindset - the old school approach to building old-school vehicles - without considering if there was a better way to do things. It seems like they didn't consider if there could be a better way of doing things at all. They for sure rested on their laurels a bit whatever those laurels are.

The statement about the Mach-E's wiring harness seems to say it all: their strategy was inefficient, bloated and expensive without them realizing it. They then realize this is a monumental blunder that probably cuts right to the philosophical core of all of the research and development they've been doing under the old way of thinking, so that could also be why they killed the T3 project despite all the pomp and circumstance about it. To write all of that off and walk away is unthinkable, and yet they did it. They realized their "approach" had to change and they said it themselves aloud publicly. An elekrek article I read about this that uses the exact same quotes mentions that they even learned new stuff about placing things like clips and fasteners so less of them could be used overall leading to lower manufacturing costs. This is bean counting on a psychopath level.

I do agree with you. The takeaway is there were systematic costs built into the traditional supply chain.

The UEV platform announcement video, I think, does show Ford has learned. The simplification of the engineering, manufacturing, production.

Ford piloted building an EV on tradition. That tradition was bloated. Now they LEAN into the future. Pun intended.

Chevy, Hyundai/Kia, BMW, etc with a common shared EV platform (Ultium, e-GMP, Neue Klasse) for their EVs showed that's how production costs are lowered when cost is shared across vehicles.

I'm optimistic about Ford's UEV platform.

 

[Rip]

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a70394562/interview-jim-farley-ceo-ford-motor-company/

Not as much as I regret buying a Ford

He didn't say he totally regrets it...he said he totally would have done things differently. He had a good point. I was surprised to hear that they tore down a Tesla after the fact, and found that the wiring harness was shorter and lighter. It used to be that you did things like that BEFORE you designed your product, so you could meet and beat the competition. I guess Ford has unlearned a lot of the lessons they learned in the Quality crisis of the '80s.

 

[Jarratt]

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a70394562/interview-jim-farley-ceo-ford-motor-company/

Not as much as I regret buying a Ford

Farley thought the world was going to be vastly different than it turned out to be when he greenlit the Lightning. His biggest misstep was that he was confident that new battery tech would be able to extract weight and cost in a few years. That fundamental innovation hasn't happened. Solid state is still years away.

I have owned many pickups (mostly Toyotas) over half a century. My Lightning is the best. By far. I grin ear to ear behind the wheel, especially when it's snotty. Love ditching my generator & gascan.

I can't see giving up this ride, but the new skunkworks pickup might be tempting. It's vexing that the battery has not evolved. In the four years since I've bought this ride, I would have predicted that batteries to power this form factor would have been quite a bit lighter and vastly cheaper with very fast charge times.

Farley took a huge risk with this vehicle. He expected to be able to make money near a $70k MRP. I SO wanted him to be right. It might still cost him his job.

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