Ford CEO Jim Farley Totally Regrets Ford F150 Lightning Pickup

[Robocop]

As a reference point, the first gen Tesla Roadster only sold about 2500 total and still managed to create a healthy aftermarket support network including upgrades to the battery. It did help that Tesla was willing to support the aftermarket. If Ford is willing to do the same and given the relatively modular design of the Lightning, I think there’s some good opportunities out there for future battery and charging improvements on existing Lightnings.

I am with you on this. I'm never getting rid of my truck so I'm waiting for this. We've already learned the SR and ER packs can be swapped in and out without requiring programming thanks to one person who tried it. I am confident it will happen.

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[lipnorth]

Well with the price of gas flying higher he may be kicking himself for no longer having a current EV truck. Will take years to deliver its next-gen truck.

I agree Ford should learn how to make the truck more efficient (lighter, smaller battery), but stay the EV course.

With three EV’s and solar, I am not worried how much gas costs at the pump.

 

[gregoryhcain]

Why didn't Ford keep the Lightning and grow into it as a specialty line. Certainly the gas F-150's are "paying the freight" for the time being while Ford learns. Chevy only sells 25,000 Corvettes a year, maybe 50,000 on their recent best years and somehow they find it worthwhile to produce. Frankly I love my Lightning and am very disappointed they dropped the full size EV Truck line for an EREV. My Lightning meets everyone of my requirements, even my towing requirements. Sure they could do things better, but I thought that they could still do better in a full size truck without scrapping it. EREV to me is something I don't want for something I'll never use, and I suspect the vast majority of truck owners will never need either. I am betting that in a few years when the EREV does come out it will bomb. They could have moved on to 800V, better battery tech like the Chinese, faster charging and maybe the "holy grail" of solid state (we'll know in another week or two if Donut is a hoax or real). I am afraid that when Ford brings out their EREV or their midsize EV truck, I will be moving on to a Silverado EV, a Scout, and if Tesla ever stops making it butt ugly, perhaps a Cybertruck.

 

[Nikos]

I remembered when we were getting the first Lightnings, (Lariats and Platinums), that we were suckered into buying expensive trucks.
I didn’t feel that way, but now I don’t know what to think anymore.
To my surprise, I got a damn good truck at a reasonable price.
No regrets, no buyers remorse, just a good deal. Only time will tell if Ford made the right decision or a big mistake by discontinuing the Lightning.
Let us see what happens in couple years. Change in the administration and its regretful policies towards EVs and renewable energy technologies.
Just like my solar panels on my roof.
Have no regrets on putting them on my roof 5 years ago. I know what my electric bill is, even with 2 EVs charging, and is at least 50% less or more than my neighbors bills are.
Another good deal at the time that has payed off.

Seems to me that we bought $120,000 trucks for $70,000.

 

[Nikos]

I am on the same boat with you.
I agree wholeheartedly.!!!!!

 

[CD4TNF]

Thank you for parsing this out in this way. I'm not sure I agree with the other posts blaming failed marketing, or the price point, the dealers or any of that. Those points may be fair and they may be factors in the demise of this product that we own and love but the CEO isn't talking about any of that here.

I agree with the other poster who thought that not dismantling a tesla product to conduct an autopsy on their processes earlier on was a massive error. The CEO all but admitted that in this statement. It seems like Ford attacked the EV problem with the legacy manufacturer mindset - the old school approach to building old-school vehicles - without considering if there was a better way to do things. It seems like they didn't consider if there could be a better way of doing things at all. They for sure rested on their laurels a bit whatever those laurels are.

The statement about the Mach-E's wiring harness seems to say it all: their strategy was inefficient, bloated and expensive without them realizing it. They then realize this is a monumental blunder that probably cuts right to the philosophical core of all of the research and development they've been doing under the old way of thinking, so that could also be why they killed the T3 project despite all the pomp and circumstance about it. To write all of that off and walk away is unthinkable, and yet they did it. They realized their "approach" had to change and they said it themselves aloud publicly. An elekrek article I read about this that uses the exact same quotes mentions that they even learned new stuff about placing things like clips and fasteners so less of them could be used overall leading to lower manufacturing costs. This is bean counting on a psychopath level.

I do agree with you. The takeaway is there were systematic costs built into the traditional supply chain.

The UEV platform announcement video, I think, does show Ford has learned. The simplification of the engineering, manufacturing, production.

Ford piloted building an EV on tradition. That tradition was bloated. Now they LEAN into the future. Pun intended.

Chevy, Hyundai/Kia, BMW, etc with a common shared EV platform (Ultium, e-GMP, Neue Klasse) for their EVs showed that's how production costs are lowered when cost is shared across vehicles.

I'm optimistic about Ford's UEV platform.

 

[Rip]

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a70394562/interview-jim-farley-ceo-ford-motor-company/

Not as much as I regret buying a Ford

He didn't say he totally regrets it...he said he totally would have done things differently. He had a good point. I was surprised to hear that they tore down a Tesla after the fact, and found that the wiring harness was shorter and lighter. It used to be that you did things like that BEFORE you designed your product, so you could meet and beat the competition. I guess Ford has unlearned a lot of the lessons they learned in the Quality crisis of the '80s.

 

[Jarratt]

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a70394562/interview-jim-farley-ceo-ford-motor-company/

Not as much as I regret buying a Ford

Farley thought the world was going to be vastly different than it turned out to be when he greenlit the Lightning. His biggest misstep was that he was confident that new battery tech would be able to extract weight and cost in a few years. That fundamental innovation hasn't happened. Solid state is still years away.

I have owned many pickups (mostly Toyotas) over half a century. My Lightning is the best. By far. I grin ear to ear behind the wheel, especially when it's snotty. Love ditching my generator & gascan.

I can't see giving up this ride, but the new skunkworks pickup might be tempting. It's vexing that the battery has not evolved. In the four years since I've bought this ride, I would have predicted that batteries to power this form factor would have been quite a bit lighter and vastly cheaper with very fast charge times.

Farley took a huge risk with this vehicle. He expected to be able to make money near a $70k MRP. I SO wanted him to be right. It might still cost him his job.

 

[Sobmartin]

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a70394562/interview-jim-farley-ceo-ford-motor-company/

Not as much as I regret buying a Ford

I am so happy we bought the Lightning in 2024. Sorry that everyone after this has to deal with a lesser pickup. Farley should just retool with better batteries and a better electrical design. (Steal from CHINA)

 

[CoolViper777]

The relevant paragraphs for anyone not inclined to click. Added brackets to clarify speaker.

The F-150 Lightning seemed to be selling well at first, but after you'd expanded to meet higher-than-anticipated demand, it didn't go as planned. Looking back at the Lightning, would you do it differently?

[Farley]I totally would've done it differently. I mean, look, we didn't know what we didn't know.

When did you realize you'd done EVs wrong?

[Farley]When we ripped apart a Tesla with Doug Field [Ford's chief officer for EVs, digital, and design, formerly of Apple and Tesla]. I was just absolutely flabbergasted. The Mach-E's wiring harness was 70 pounds heavier and 1.6 kilometers longer. We didn't know what was going on in [Tesla engineers' ] minds. But now we understand. They had no prejudice. We had prejudice. We'd gone to our supply-chain person and said, "Buy another wiring harness." [Tesla] said, "Let's design the vehicle for the lowest, smallest battery." Totally different approach.

I would be very surprised if they hadn't already torn apart every available EV on the market when designing the Lightning.

 

[CoolViper777]

Not every business venture will be a success.
If they never tried then we wouldn't have these awesome trucks.

I always equate it to how everyone is quick to forget how we used to have lightbulbs that draw 10x the amount of power. We only got to mass market and affordable LEDs by the CFL as a stepping stone and a few other failed concepts. Progress is a good thing regardless if the shareholders don't like it. Consumers didn't like it either, they wanted to keep their inefficient lightbulbs because they had a "better colour" and would "last longer". I'm happy that incandescent bulbs are gone, it makes life easier now and cheaper.

And yet, incandescent lights STILL provide the best lighting, and color clarity. Cheaper LEDs by comparison have poor color clarity/rendition. It's only the expensive LEDs that can compete with incandescents in this regard.

 

[CoolViper777]

The F150 Lightning failed to catch on for the same exact reason that EV's today have failed to catch on in America, except for niche markets. And that is most people do NOT have EV charging at home, and do NOT want to wait 30 minutes in line to charge their car/truck.

Yes, Tesla's are a big niche market, but still, are small sales compared to ICE vehicles. People will buy a hybrid, since you don't have to wait line to charge it. But, it a completely different mindset have an EV vehicle. And a different setup needed as well at home for it.

 

[CoolViper777]

(A) JP Morgan (analyst) is predicting $120 crude oil in the near future. Not sure the enthusiasm will hold for massive v8’s at $5-$8/gal depending on where you live.

Didn't seem to stop people from driving big V8's when gas was at $4 to $5 a gallon.

 

[CoolViper777]

I mean...

A lot of folks seem to think Farley is the only guy at all in a multi billion dollar company, and that he has dictator like powers. Hell, I only have a few guys on my team and I have been beating them up for YEARS to change their ways, Ford has 180,000 AND shareholders to answer to.

It seems a lot of folks also want Tesla like engineering, but don't realize how crappy tesla like engineering IS. Everything they do is about making it as cheap as possible. I'm not saying they are complete trash, but they are not great cars.

The point of the Lightning was to make a Truck that is electric. Vehicles like the GM entries do well, but unibody Avalanches are not exactly the rage amongst truck buyers. I think the sales numbers agree with that.

Ford "lost money" because they could, Absolutely no car is profitable if you have to roll billions of infrastructure cost into it. But our government let them write down their losses on EVs, so why not jump on it. The Lightning was just the scapegoat (since the Mach-E sells better). They were basically handed a billion dollar check, and they can just bank that and come out with something new in a year or 4, which they were already planning to do! Seriously, they got a few billion in write offs and all they had to do was end a truck they were ending anyways.

I get the bitterness, but folks need to calm down a little. And yes, Ford has made mistakes, I'm not saying they have not, but i think a lot of folks just want someone to be angry at.

Tesla is garbage cars. Look up so many problems with the large drive motors, which unfortunately like the Ford/GM 10R80 garbage transmission, is guaranteed fail, often sooner rather than later.

 

[CoolViper777]

The only regret is that the American public is and has been beguiled by the capital interests of oil.... for how long now?

Let's not fool ourselves that a viable and profitable BEV truck isn't possible. It is inevitable.

Battery tech/efficiencies in design/economies of scale will come together in a few years and instantly cannibalize the entire market including EREV.

I have a hard time believing that Ford is this naive though. I think cancelling the Lightning and this talk about EREV is just short term smiley face for the American public. The have to be hedging a future of their flagship product and protecting their market share.

What, the oil/natural gas that makes our Western life possible? That oil?

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