Ford CEO Jim Farley Totally Regrets Ford F150 Lightning Pickup

[Ventorum94]

I agree with this. The message got very confusing.

"40k electric truck". People were interested. When you went to the dealer everything was 63k for a base model.

They should have saturated the lots with the 45k SR XLT options. But I honestly don't believe you can make $ on those trims. Because that's what the midsize cross overs are going for and only some companies are making profit on those.

But Ford should've used the Loss leader approach Tesla did and Rivian is doing.

Lose $ on first few years of sales but convince people of the technology.They tried to skip this step.

Instead they tried to recoup research cost with $95k trucks AND convince people of new technology. When a F150 Sport ICE sits right next to it for 39k.

Only so many people that are interested in EV / willing to experiment with transportation / can afford a 75k option.

Ford sold out the 2022 production (though brief) and demand was so strong that they even raised prices of 2023s (remember?). Downward price adjustment only happened after price caps for new EV tax credits were legislated. I think that Ford’s mistake was in ever suggesting that a Lightning would be an under-$60k truck. Ordinarily, one would expect the development expense of a new-generation vehicle to be recovered over years of production, and hundreds of thousands of units- but that the cost of materials, parts, and labor to build that new vehicle would be less than the selling price, on Day One. I doubt that any F150 Lightning ever built sold for even the cost of the parts (including massive battery pack) to build it. The marketing for Lightnings should have been aimed at people who were already willing to pay $60k+ for a new Tesla, but wanted a traditional full-size electric truck.

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[On the Road with Ralph]

Not many CEO's can screw up as much as Farley and keep their jobs

Steve Jobs had a name for the kind of corporate executive that Jim Farley is: a bozo. And in Farley‘s case, a marketing bozo. I bought my Lightning despite of him and have regularly cringed at his failure to grasp the engineering necessary to create great, affordable EV’s.

Recently, I have been wondering if Farley has ever spent time with an actual Lightning owner. I’d say 90% or more of us love our trucks. I am dumbfounded that Ford walked away from that kind of product reception.

 

[Pacific.NW]

Ford’s mistake was thinking they could take their existing truck-making knowledge and apply it to a BEV. An auto manufacturer with over 100 years of doing things one way can’t just shift gears (pun intended) and expect everything is the same with a different power train. Tesla had no conventional automaker experience and that shows with their fit and finish, their edge is technology because they weren’t constrained by old thinking, but Ford was, and they paid the price.

 

[Adventureboy]

I take a really simple approach to this. The media is just noise. Ford cannot let up on the EV trend, or it will be irrelevant in a few years and far behind the rest of the world. It would be a death sentence.

Ford knows this.... I highly doubt Ford will let themselves be left behind. They won't share their detailed strategy with the media for good reason. In 2 years, this will all look different and much of this noise will be behind us.

 

[msingh]

The relevant paragraphs for anyone not inclined to click. Added brackets to clarify speaker.

The F-150 Lightning seemed to be selling well at first, but after you'd expanded to meet higher-than-anticipated demand, it didn't go as planned. Looking back at the Lightning, would you do it differently?

[Farley]I totally would've done it differently. I mean, look, we didn't know what we didn't know.

When did you realize you'd done EVs wrong?

[Farley]When we ripped apart a Tesla with Doug Field [Ford's chief officer for EVs, digital, and design, formerly of Apple and Tesla]. I was just absolutely flabbergasted. The Mach-E's wiring harness was 70 pounds heavier and 1.6 kilometers longer. We didn't know what was going on in [Tesla engineers' ] minds. But now we understand. They had no prejudice. We had prejudice. We'd gone to our supply-chain person and said, "Buy another wiring harness." [Tesla] said, "Let's design the vehicle for the lowest, smallest battery." Totally different approach.

The lack of understanding around the engineering of a Tesla, BEFORE they went to build their EV platforms is a complete failure of Farley and his leadership. So they want to have us believe they did not research the marketplace? Seems to me they tried to leverage the 'EV market' by taking something they are already making money on, and assumed that their legions of fans would just buy an EV version at a ridiculously high price, with the least amount of engineering put into the design.

They were then shocked when sales fell off a cliff and the solution over the years has been to decontent the truck and leverage large incentives, instead of just lowering the prices.

Since they are only now, seemingly, understanding their market, please consider what Tesla just did on CyberTruck.

They cut the price drastically, (albeit for 10 days) on a Cybertruck, and sold out it seems that inventory.

For Farley to just now 'understand' Tesla, or the Chinese manufacturers, is shameful at the least, and inept at best.

 

[JRDM2]

Charlie Munro could have told them that. Matter of fact... he did! when the Ford EV execs visited Munro Associates and talked about these very subjects in 2024.

That's a couple years after they started building production Lightnings. That knowledge is incorporated into the UEV platform though.

 

[FirstF150InCasco]

Linda Zhang LinkedIn is here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/linda-zhang-bb699b7/

 

[chl]

The relevant paragraphs for anyone not inclined to click. Added brackets to clarify speaker.

The F-150 Lightning seemed to be selling well at first, but after you'd expanded to meet higher-than-anticipated demand, it didn't go as planned. Looking back at the Lightning, would you do it differently?

[Farley]I totally would've done it differently. I mean, look, we didn't know what we didn't know.

When did you realize you'd done EVs wrong?

[Farley]When we ripped apart a Tesla with Doug Field [Ford's chief officer for EVs, digital, and design, formerly of Apple and Tesla]. I was just absolutely flabbergasted. The Mach-E's wiring harness was 70 pounds heavier and 1.6 kilometers longer. We didn't know what was going on in [Tesla engineers' ] minds. But now we understand. They had no prejudice. We had prejudice. We'd gone to our supply-chain person and said, "Buy another wiring harness." [Tesla] said, "Let's design the vehicle for the lowest, smallest battery." Totally different approach.

The problem for 'legacy' automakers in a nut shell - too much old design 'baggage.'

 

[DavidS]

In all of this discussion, we need to remember that the Lightning was primarily a reaction to the Cybertruck announcement. With the consumer interest and Elon’s sales projections, Ford needed a product fast to protect the company’s base profit maker. The Lightning is over engineered and risk adverse design but it was never going to be profitable unless they sold 100’s of thousands a year. But we need another 5-10 years of battery technology and charging infrastructure to support those kinds of sales.

 

[chl]

They cut the price drastically, (albeit for 10 days) on a Cybertruck, and sold out it seems that inventory.

ECON 101 Price Theory in action.

 

[msingh]

The problem for 'legacy' automakers in a nut shell - too much old design 'baggage.'

Agreed but I don't understand the comment from Farley. As I understand the process, manufacturers beat themselves up to save two cents. But his example is we went to procurement and just said 'get another harness'? So no thought to numbers of wires, distance, connections? That didn't catch that obvious difference in the Tesla, before they went to procurement? That is not baggage, its negligence.

 

[Wendy]

Farley seems to get it now, that Software is a huge component of any new vehicle. I hope they invest there, as I think the BEV portion of the truck is great. They will change their tune in 3 years and get back on the bandwagon.

 

[ClevelandBeemer]

The whole F150 Lightning saga is a shame. It’s a great vehicle that probably would have been amazing on its second generation. Instead of Ford taking those first gen learnings and making a better truck, they decide to throw in the towel.

I know this topic has been beaten to death, but it’s Ford’s fault that the truck didn’t sell better.

1. Zero, and I mean ZERO marketing.
2. Not cracking down on dealer markups.
3. Not making the ER Pro available to those that wanted it. Ford needed to have a $49,999 ER variant with 9.6kw PPO that was actually available for anyone to buy.
4. Assuming that the average truck buyer would purchase a $70,000 to $90,000 truck.
5. Failing to educate the average truck buyer of why they would want a Lightning.

I do hope that the Lightning returns. Hopefully with a unified compute architecture and sodium or solid state battery tech. As first gen products go, Ford did an excellent job.

 

[chl]

I waited a long time for an electric pickup truck that wasn't a bunch of 12v batteries wire together in the bed.

So when Musk announced the Cyber-mess I jumped along with over a million others and got a reservation - an EV pickup for $40k! Even if it was kind of ugly, and the bullet-proof window shattered, I'm game.

I was glad when Ford announced the Lightning which I also had a reservation for.

Then a lot of $hit happened beyond the automakers control.

Ford got to market first but the price was jacked way up and dealership around here were putting big premiums on then as much as $15,000!

Nobody wanted to sell me a Pro either, only for fleet buyers.

Tesla also jacked the price up.

Both reservations I cancelled.

Finally ECON 101 Price Theory kicked in and the prices came back down to earth, plus we could get the tax credit up front, and I could get a Pro model with almost everything I wanted for under $50k.

I was happy. I still am.

I can work around the 12v battery failures with a maintainer - had to do that with my 2012 Nissan Leaf for years (bought in Dec 2011) and the 12v battery is still at about 80%.

The Bluetooth drop-outs and disconnects? I just use an SSD formatted in xfat with my music files through the USB, or use an FM transmitter and an unused FM freq.

The HIS troubles I avoid thanks to the videos and posts here and elsewhere, kind of a disappointment though, it was a good selling point, if it had been reasonably priced and actually worked reliably for everyone.

A transfer switch with the PPOB is good enough - I already was set up with a gas generator transfer switch, input box, etc. so not a big deal to add a second one that switched neutrals for the Lightning.

While it is not perfect, so far it has been close (Jan 2024 to now) with only minor-ish annoyances.

I feel for those with more serious issues to deal with - hoping I do not experience anything more serious in the near future - knock on wood.

I think the Lightning could have been improved rather than cancelled, but the new EV pickup, if Ford follows through competently, should be a winner.

I think Ford might have recouped their investment over time, but a lot of factors must have influenced the decision, like tariffs and the anti-EV animus of the current Congress leadership and administration in Washington. Things should/could be better in 2027 when the new truck comes to market.

Financial decisions are complicated, and, tax laws and 'bean counters' probably played a role. I get it. It's a business. We're just faceless consumers.

But will Ford be able to compete effectively with the Chinese if the barriers to their entry into the US markets were not there? Can their new design compete with other PU Truck makers, Slate, Rivian, etc.?

Perhaps if they do it right, and don't forget ECON 101 Price Theory when they market it.

 

[chl]

The whole F150 Lightning saga is a shame. It’s a great vehicle that probably would have been amazing on its second generation. Instead of Ford taking those first gen learnings and making a better truck, they decide to throw in the towel.

I know this topic has been beaten to death, but it’s Ford’s fault that the truck didn’t sell better.

1. Zero, and I mean ZERO marketing.
2. Not cracking down on dealer markups.
3. Not making the ER Pro available to those that wanted it. Ford needed to have a $49,999 ER variant with 9.6kw PPO that was actually available for anyone to buy.
4. Assuming that the average truck buyer would purchase a $70,000 to $90,000 truck.
5. Failing to educate the average truck buyer of why they would want a Lightning.

Exactly.
I had to wait until Jan 2024 to get a Pro with 9.6kW PPOB for under $50k with the tax credit up front, plenty of them available by then.

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