Charging truck from solar array while powering home with PPO (offgrid)

[HI Zeus]

First, I know there is a great deal of loss going from DC to AC to DC back to AC (panels to inverter to truck batteries to house), AND I know that Sigenergy now has a two-way DC inverter option for EVs (but I'm concerned this may void the warranty).

Soooo...

Step 1: Plug my PPO into my hybrid inverter, (current sm inverter allows for a 120 input) so that the truck battery is there to support the solar battery running the home needs when the solar panels are insufficient.

Step 2: Plug my charging cord into a home outlet to charge the truck when there is plenty of solar.

As a general plan I would have the PPO available to help out the solar batteries during evening, then shut this down during daylight hours, and have the charging set up to charge during the daylight hours.

Other than the loss of the multiple conversions from DC to AC and back is there anything I'm missing that makes this a no-go? (I realize the correct balacing of charging vs powering and timing it could be an issue, especially if the solar battery is small, but is it a functionally POSSIBLE setup?)

Thanks for any informed input!

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[22legit2quit]

The whole solar part is where I’m confused. Are you talking about a small portable array being used to charge this or something else? I’m guess it’s portable when I see the small battery mentioned. If it’s portable, I love the energy but unless you’ve got significant panels you’re toting around I’m not sure the range gained would offset the weight you’re carrying around much less the cost.

I think the going decent range on here is somewhere in the 2.4ish miles/kw hour, even if you had 1000w of panels you’d gain maybe 10 miles of range on a nice day? Best case scenario. That’s just me because I’ve been looking into this myself.

 

[chl]

Think about this.

When the EVSE charge cord is plugged in to the truck AND you have the PPOB running, the truck will draw utility power through the EVSE and provide it to the PPOB.

That was what I discovered one day when my truck went to 100% instead of 80% due to a reset of the charge settings by an update, and I was trying to draw down the HVB back to 80% by running my 10 emergency circuits from the PPOB (through a GENERAC transfer switch), but I had left the truck plugged in to my FCSP EVSE.

I noticed the truck HVB wasn't getting lower and then I noticed that the FCSP was "charging" the truck outside of the normal charge time.

So it seems to me, IF you have the charger plugged into your truck, the energy supplied through the PPOB will come from that source, not the HVB (via the truck PPOB).

If you could control the charging of the truck to only happen when there is a surplus of solar AND you could control the PPOB to only provide energy to the house when the truck is NOT being charged, then you'd have what I think you are trying to do.

Otherwise you just have the house energy going in a circle from EVSE->Truck->PPOB->House and back again.

You might also run into a ground fault issue which will shut off the PPOB depending on house circuitry involved.

 

[HI Zeus]

To clarrify: this is the home solar array I'm talking about, which will be 100% offgrid, the nearest power pole is miles away.

I want to use the truck as a way to "expand" or supplement the offgrid battery bank (if needed) and charge the truck whenever there is more power than the house is using.

I think the simplist theoretical connection would be that the solar array battery would "always" be charging the truck when it "asks" for it, and then ensure the truck isn't asking for it overnight etc.

As far as the truck helping the solar array battery I would envision when ever the truck is home it would be connected to the PPO (especially at night).

I figure I can then start with a smallish solar array battery but have the truck for backup. The 1st house we'll live in will be a guest house, so after a year of so it will not need an expensive battery sitting there doin almost nothing 90% of the time. I'd like to save money on a battery and know that the truck can function as a back-up whenever is needed.

After we've been in the house for a few months using this scheme I would also have a much better idea of how much storage we really need and add batteries if needed.

Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[chl]

Oh, no utility I see.

I think you'd be better off with a system like the SIGEnergy rather than trying to use the PPOB with components you put together. The PPOB has limits the SIGenergy system would not. I recommend talking to them about your requirements.

That said...

A few things you have to ask yourself and decide if it is feasible:

Is the solar array and battery bank going to be the only source of energy for charging the truck?

The PPOB can only supply 30A at 240V, and 20A on the truck 120V outlets.

However, you could get a splitter and use the 240V 30A for two 15A circuits, like this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08FBG3TCY?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

The two 120V 15A circuits will be out of phase though since the 240V output from the PPOB is a split phase source.

But the total energy the truck could transfer, ignoring losses is whatever your truck battery holds minus the reserve needed to get the ruck to a charge station or other EVSE.

So I'd say you have to do some calculations to be sure this would be practical:

1) daily solar energy available - will it be enough for your expected loads?
2) solar battery storage capacity - is it enough to charge your truck and run the house loads?
3) what truck battery reserve can you live with that will get you to a local charger?

Using the truck as a temporary power source would not seem to be a warranty voider - Ford promotes their HIS after all.

If totally off grid and running on only solar, you might consider appliances, lights etc. that are specially designed for low energy usages, even DC powered things to eliminate some of the losses from DC to AC conversion?

Interesting to see how this project ends up.

 

[HI Zeus]

The whole solar part is where I’m confused. Are you talking about a small portable array being used to charge this or something else? I’m guess it’s portable when I see the small battery mentioned. If it’s portable, I love the energy but unless you’ve got significant panels you’re toting around I’m not sure the range gained would offset the weight you’re carrying around much less the cost.

I think the going decent range on here is somewhere in the 2.4ish miles/kw hour, even if you had 1000w of panels you’d gain maybe 10 miles of range on a nice day? Best case scenario. That’s just me because I’ve been looking into this myself.

This is a different idea, although one I went down the road a bit as well.

I had some portable panels that produced about 500W of energy, and a Anker Solix C2000 power station. My thought had been that as I was working the land that I could ad a few kW of charge to the truck while it sat at the construction site in Hawaii. It turned out that the C2000 could not provide enough power to even do the 120V charging, but my biggest issue was that I can't ship lithium batteries (C2000) to Hawaii (like absolutely NO way to get it there), also the scheme for when to send the truck etc. changed. (It is still in New Mexico for a few more weeks.) So, I totally scrapped that idea, but I do think it is feasable with a higher output power station. I think it would only be practicle if you have a full sunny day, and even then minimally. Now if you were going to be camping for a week or more...

If you are wondering about "can't ship lithium batteries" and getting a Lightning to Hawaii... ONE shipping company will ship EV's to Hawaii, Pasha, the other major shipper (Matheson) won't touch them (even brand new from the manufacturer)!!

 

[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

To clarrify: this is the home solar array I'm talking about, which will be 100% offgrid, the nearest power pole is miles away.

{no grid for back up or overnight charging available}


I want to use the truck as a way to "expand" or supplement the offgrid battery bank (if needed) and charge the truck whenever there is more power than the house is using.

{The EV battery acts as a secondary batter to the main ESS house battery, you need control over flow in or out, and when this should take place}

I think the simplist theoretical connection would be that the solar array battery would "always" be charging the truck when it "asks" for it, and then ensure the truck isn't asking for it overnight etc.

{Many PV Inverters have a setting for a "dump load" that only activates when the main ESS is nearly full and incoming PV is strong, you could put your EV charger on this dump load circuit}

As far as the truck helping the solar array battery I would envision when ever the truck is home it would be connected to the PPO (especially at night).

I figure I can then start with a smallish solar array battery but have the truck for backup. The 1st house we'll live in will be a guest house, so after a year of so it will not need an expensive battery sitting there doin almost nothing 90% of the time. I'd like to save money on a battery and know that the truck can function as a back-up whenever is needed.

After we've been in the house for a few months using this scheme I would also have a much better idea of how much storage we really need and add batteries if needed.

Thanks for your thoughts!

I have a full PV-Inverter system with 13kW of solar and 178kWh of Battery ESS running my home and business next door. The property always runs on the solar-battery-inverter system 24-7-365. In my setup, I have grid as backup, and very low overnight rate power (3.9 cents plus delivery). To do charging the utility is controlled by relays that power a group of four EG4-Chargverters (AC to DC chargers) and these just charge up the ESS.
I use Home Assistant to monitor the battery ESS SOC and the weather forcast for tomorrow. At 11:00PM when the low cost utility becomes available, the system "decides" if any utility charging is needed tonight, and if so for how long, to charge up the ESS. If the forcast for tomorrow is sun, the ESS doesn't charge at all.

For back-up when the grid is down, ie a big winter blow-out; I use the Truck as the back up, but again I only add power directly to the house ESS - not powering house loads. I don't have 240v from my Lightning, just the 20A 120v PPOB. I mounted a 1600W AC to DC charger to the shop wall with a plug and cord that reaches the bed with the truck parked in the shop.
Yes 1.6kW "seems" low but it isn't, here is why it works: The average daily use of the house and shop during a stormy day (no dryer allowed) is 37kWh per day - this runs well pump, heatpump, lights TV all the normal house and shop items needed. From the Lightning, 1.6kW x 24 hours is 38kWh per 24 hours.
in 14 months I have used the truck as back up twice. And in one cast the utility was back up in two hours so I didn't really need to bother, but I didn't know that when the storm hit. lol.

In building my set up, I had to learn how big does the ESS "need" to be. This is a function of your normal power use daily, and normal solar input etc. You can modify some loads for low SOC ESS ie no-dryer days or similar, but there are some things you will not want to change - ie well water is a must have for my set up.

Without grid as back-up, and wanting two-way power transfer,(your home ESS to from EV) you may want to look at the EV chargers that are set up for V2H use and see it one of these can be used to support your plans. I did't go that way, and I don't know much about those chargers/reliability.

The alternative may be a more manual system where generally you charge up the ESS during the day, and if it gets to 80% SOC it triggers a dump load which is charging your Lightning. At night you may need power to go the other way, and here you can choose either to charge your house ESS with the truck, or directly power the house from the truck PPOB system. If you hve 240 30A outlets this may work for your set up.

One last issue though, before the 2024 MY, there is no easy way to leave the PPOB "on" while the truck is "off" - my 2024 does this as long as the load is above about 400W which my steady 1.6kW charger is. If your truck is 2023, PPOB may not be a good option unless you leave the truck "on".

Hope this gives you some ideas. Ask away if you have questions.

 

[chl]

One last issue though, before the 2024 MY, there is no easy way to leave the PPOB "on" while the truck is "off" - my 2024 does this as long as the load is above about 400W which my steady 1.6kW charger is. If your truck is 2023, PPOB may not be a good option unless you leave the truck "on".

There is an easy FORscan tweak for that - I did it to my 2023 Pro:
-----
Enable Pro Power Onboard with truck off (2022-2023 only. Standard on 2024+).

In the settings that follow, “x” means leave the value as is and
“-“ is the checksum value that FORScan will re-calculate for you when you write the data.

An " * " means the new value depends on the old value so read the notes.

While all the settings can be done using As-Built Mode, some can be done with “Easy” mode. Both are shown where applicable.

Creates a Sync toggle in the Pro Power settings screen IN THE TRUCK.

See this post for operational details.


This mod requires a PCM update that came out in early 2025 via FDRS. However, the Charge Port OTAs that came in early 2026 will also work (PT-25.13.12 and PT-25.8.5).


7D0-10-03 xxxx xx2x xx--
7D0-10-04 xxx* xxxx xx--

If 0, change to 8.

If 4, change to C.

If 6, change to E.

FROM:
This is a new version of the original FORScan thread. The original contains historic information but its mods may be out of date, at:

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/f150-lightning-forscan-thread-version-2.23634/

-----
CHL NOTE:
I had the PT-25.8.5 OTA and
I had a "4" in that * spot on my 2023 Pro.

One thing I noticed - for some reason the reserve setting had a glitch after one of the recent update and the truck cut off BEFORE reaching the reserve level. The workaround seems to be to set if for the nearest charge station in the truck menu.

One other thing - during my testing of PPOB with the truck off, after a couple hours running my house at about 800-1000W, I noticed my Frunk had opened all by itself.
Not sure if maybe using PPOB with truck OFF could have drained the 12v battery causing that to happen or what. I keep the 12v on a maintainer except when running PPOB to the house - the maintainer is generally plugged into one of the circuits being backed up so it might cause a ground loop.

 

[chl]

I have a full PV-Inverter system with 13kW of solar and 178kWh of Battery ESS running my home and business next door. The property always runs on the solar-battery-inverter system 24-7-365. In my setup, I have grid as backup, and very low overnight rate power (3.9 cents plus delivery). To do charging the utility is controlled by relays that power a group of four EG4-Chargverters (AC to DC chargers) and these just charge up the ESS.
I use Home Assistant to monitor the battery ESS SOC and the weather forcast for tomorrow. At 11:00PM when the low cost utility becomes available, the system "decides" if any utility charging is needed tonight, and if so for how long, to charge up the ESS. If the forcast for tomorrow is sun, the ESS doesn't charge at all.

For back-up when the grid is down, ie a big winter blow-out; I use the Truck as the back up, but again I only add power directly to the house ESS - not powering house loads. I don't have 240v from my Lightning, just the 20A 120v PPOB. I mounted a 1600W AC to DC charger to the shop wall with a plug and cord that reaches the bed with the truck parked in the shop.
Yes 1.6kW "seems" low but it isn't, here is why it works: The average daily use of the house and shop during a stormy day (no dryer allowed) is 37kWh per day - this runs well pump, heatpump, lights TV all the normal house and shop items needed. From the Lightning, 1.6kW x 24 hours is 38kWh per 24 hours.
in 14 months I have used the truck as back up twice. And in one cast the utility was back up in two hours so I didn't really need to bother, but I didn't know that when the storm hit. lol.

In building my set up, I had to learn how big does the ESS "need" to be. This is a function of your normal power use daily, and normal solar input etc. You can modify some loads for low SOC ESS ie no-dryer days or similar, but there are some things you will not want to change - ie well water is a must have for my set up.

Without grid as back-up, and wanting two-way power transfer,(your home ESS to from EV) you may want to look at the EV chargers that are set up for V2H use and see it one of these can be used to support your plans. I did't go that way, and I don't know much about those chargers/reliability.

The alternative may be a more manual system where generally you charge up the ESS during the day, and if it gets to 80% SOC it triggers a dump load which is charging your Lightning. At night you may need power to go the other way, and here you can choose either to charge your house ESS with the truck, or directly power the house from the truck PPOB system. If you hve 240 30A outlets this may work for your set up.

One last issue though, before the 2024 MY, there is no easy way to leave the PPOB "on" while the truck is "off" - my 2024 does this as long as the load is above about 400W which my steady 1.6kW charger is. If your truck is 2023, PPOB may not be a good option unless you leave the truck "on".

Hope this gives you some ideas. Ask away if you have questions.

Nice system and good advice.
Always a good idea to do the calculations and price things ahead of time for the best outcome!

 

[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

Good point - do research and plot out the costs of various options. I should have said that in my post. These systems can get pricy.

 

[chl]

Good point - do research and plot out the costs of various options. I should have said that in my post. These systems can get pricy.

Yes, it would be a lot less expensive for the solar panels if it weren't for tariffs.
The HIS or the SIGenergy systems are a good chunk of change, too.

I decided to use the PPOB 240V 30A for house back up - a $500 or so investment.

A large solar project at my location was just not feasible and very expensive when I looked into it.

But Virginia, like Utah and most of Europe, is now going to allow up to 1200W systems with no utility or zoning red tape, plug-in solar they call it, so that's in my future.

If I was off-grid or somewhere where electricity was wildly expensive, it'd be a different story.

 

[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

yes, there is quite a lot of support in many EU Countries for the low power 'plug-in balcony PV' systems that allow a low input to the grid without connection agreements etc. imagine 1.2kW input from a million homes in a city - wow that actually adds up to something. Not permitted in Canada yet as I understand it, but coming soon.

The cost of solar panels when I bought my first 440W Canadian Solar PV in 2020 where $360 CAN$ (about US 270$) each. I priced some 550W panels this year and these are now $164 CAN$ (about $122 USD) amazing change considering the inflation during that same period.
In many areas there are used PV panels from solar farm upgrades - these can be very low cost for panels that still produce 85% of new output. If you own your home and it has good solar potential -ie not shaded - it can be a way to gain energy independence. As Chi said earlier - do the research and check the costs and regs that apply to your region.
Charging the Truck all summer for "free" is a real grin producer I can tell you.

 

[chl]

yes, there is quite a lot of support in many EU Countries for the low power 'plug-in balcony PV' systems that allow a low input to the grid without connection agreements etc. imagine 1.2kW input from a million homes in a city - wow that actually adds up to something. Not permitted in Canada yet as I understand it, but coming soon.

The cost of solar panels when I bought my first 440W Canadian Solar PV in 2020 where $360 CAN$ (about US 270$) each. I priced some 550W panels this year and these are now $164 CAN$ (about $122 USD) amazing change considering the inflation during that same period.
In many areas there are used PV panels from solar farm upgrades - these can be very low cost for panels that still produce 85% of new output. If you own your home and it has good solar potential -ie not shaded - it can be a way to gain energy independence. As Chi said earlier - do the research and check the costs and regs that apply to your region.
Charging the Truck all summer for "free" is a real grin producer I can tell you.

Agreed.

But in the US of A, 100% tariffs on solar panels from China - insanity.
Way less expensive in Canada from what you mentioned, pretty close to double that.

And the red tape to get a multi-panel roof top system permitted and installed is a big hassle here, even for professional installers - some don't even want to deal with it in our county!

I've thought about used ones, a good option. These videos are inspiring:

https://www.youtube.com/@WillProwse

But I do have a shade issue during maybe 1/3 the day.
It helps keep the house cool in the summer though so cuts energy use that way...also helps keep the air cleaner.

Yes, 1.2kW covers a lot, maybe if it ran for 8 hours at that rate, 20% of our average daily use.

When the utility fuel costs get factored in, I'm sure our utility bill will go up significantly.
Right now I pay about 15 cents per kWh overnight charging the truck adding in all the costs the utility charges. (20.5 Canadian cents?)



CHL

 

[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

Living rural has certain advantges for sure.
I never get the whole 'getting roof top solar approvals' - the panels are a pound or two per sqft what are people paranoid about? it is not like a solar installation will ever crush a roof truss system.
(I live in an area with 80-lbs/sqft snow loads) lol.
no wonder so many PV installations are ground mounted.
But you make a valid point: different regions have different rules. best to know what they are and how they affect cost before starting a major investment.

 

[HI Zeus]

I have a full PV-Inverter system with 13kW of solar and 178kWh of Battery ESS running my home and business next door. The property always runs on the solar-battery-inverter system 24-7-365. In my setup, I have grid as backup, and very low overnight rate power (3.9 cents plus delivery). To do charging the utility is controlled by relays that power a group of four EG4-Chargverters (AC to DC chargers) and these just charge up the ESS.
I use Home Assistant to monitor the battery ESS SOC and the weather forcast for tomorrow. At 11:00PM when the low cost utility becomes available, the system "decides" if any utility charging is needed tonight, and if so for how long, to charge up the ESS. If the forcast for tomorrow is sun, the ESS doesn't charge at all.

For back-up when the grid is down, ie a big winter blow-out; I use the Truck as the back up, but again I only add power directly to the house ESS - not powering house loads. I don't have 240v from my Lightning, just the 20A 120v PPOB. I mounted a 1600W AC to DC charger to the shop wall with a plug and cord that reaches the bed with the truck parked in the shop.
Yes 1.6kW "seems" low but it isn't, here is why it works: The average daily use of the house and shop during a stormy day (no dryer allowed) is 37kWh per day - this runs well pump, heatpump, lights TV all the normal house and shop items needed. From the Lightning, 1.6kW x 24 hours is 38kWh per 24 hours.
in 14 months I have used the truck as back up twice. And in one cast the utility was back up in two hours so I didn't really need to bother, but I didn't know that when the storm hit. lol.

In building my set up, I had to learn how big does the ESS "need" to be. This is a function of your normal power use daily, and normal solar input etc. You can modify some loads for low SOC ESS ie no-dryer days or similar, but there are some things you will not want to change - ie well water is a must have for my set up.

Without grid as back-up, and wanting two-way power transfer,(your home ESS to from EV) you may want to look at the EV chargers that are set up for V2H use and see it one of these can be used to support your plans. I did't go that way, and I don't know much about those chargers/reliability.

The alternative may be a more manual system where generally you charge up the ESS during the day, and if it gets to 80% SOC it triggers a dump load which is charging your Lightning. At night you may need power to go the other way, and here you can choose either to charge your house ESS with the truck, or directly power the house from the truck PPOB system. If you hve 240 30A outlets this may work for your set up.

One last issue though, before the 2024 MY, there is no easy way to leave the PPOB "on" while the truck is "off" - my 2024 does this as long as the load is above about 400W which my steady 1.6kW charger is. If your truck is 2023, PPOB may not be a good option unless you leave the truck "on".

Hope this gives you some ideas. Ask away if you have questions.

WOW!
LOTS of good and relevant info here for me to sort through and think about its application to my situation/thoughts!

Thanks so much, exactly the kind of "here's what I've done" info I was hoping for. (I didn't think my concept was toooo wacky.)

I'll probably reply again when I've had more of a chance to digest this (and the other responses following yours).

THANKS again!

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