1300 miles in 3 days - DC fast charging

[bananaslug79]

Hello All,

Just finished moving in our oldest to a four year college quite far from home; 649 miles one way, about 12+ hours trip when including charge time. Of course Sparky stepped up to the plate and calmly knocked out 12 RBIs without blinking, that's just what he does. This post is not about whether you can make these kind of trips, are they comfortable/doable, etc. We all know driving electric is just another [better] way to get around these days.

I'm not new to fast charging or EV routing or whatever else. Just some observations/questions for others that may or may not do this more often and/or what experiences may align (or not) with this trip in particular but also after about 52K miles in around 41 months of ownership. ... I use a lot of words.

My biggest observation this time around on a long trip is the left hand battery temp monitor on the driver's dash. It's entirely possible this shifts/changes much more than I've ever tended to notice, but on both driving days for this trip I observed how it does noticeably increase after fast charge sessions. In owning Sparky, I've never seen it change color or cross the right bracket of what (I assume) indicates a "high" temperature. If the center line (where the battery temp is at 99% of the time) is a normal 50 "degrees," let's call that right bracket 80 and I imagine a color change from blue (I believe I've seen screenshots on this forum of some battery temps getting that high occasionally). On real cold days in winter, I have noticed it goes below the center line as normal behavior, too.

By my extremely unofficial, highly unscientific, and probably woefully inaccurate Guess-O-Meter of what data Ford pretends to show us, I would estimate Sparky's battery increased to a temperature threshold of no more than between 70-75 on this meter after fast charge sessions. We did a total of 5 stops on this journey one way, never more than 25-30 minutes each and a few done using the Sport mode "hack" of running for about 20-30 minutes prior to stopping to charge as a poor man's version of conditioning the battery. I don't know that this latter did anything but I did observe anecdotally that A) the same brand charger took the battery to (let's call it) 75 without the Sport mode hack, and once with it to maybe 65 on about the same charge time, and B) Tesla stations are firehoses that blast poor Sparky to the upper limit of what I observed on this gauge (I hate and do not trust Tesla and avoid them when I can, but well... you know).

I'm not implying anything is wrong with these behaviors and it is entirely possible this kind of thing has happened over and over for the years of ownership, charging, etc. that I've had where I simply didn't notice. The furthest I've ever taken "battery" health in regards to these vehicles is 1) charge to 90% most of the time, similar to what I do with a phone, and 2) don't fast charge a ton but hey it's travel so what can you do. Otherwise I don't really concern myself much with it. We don't travel much so the hypothesis of "this is normal battery behavior" is absolutely a possibility and I accept this if other experiences line up with mine. The vast majority of Sparky's regular charge is done at home on Ford's 80A charge station pro and really just as needed (again, for me similar to what I do with a phone).

Also, after a charge session this battery gauge returned to 50 and "normal" after maybe 30-45 minutes of regular driving. Again, nothing alarming.

Any thoughts? Cheers!

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[Zprime29]

Sounds pretty standard from my SW living experience. Only it's so hot here that I never seen the temp meter in the middle. It's always to the right and will stay there until probably October. Outdoor temp said 126F after sitting all day in the sun. Temp was about the same as when I leave in the morning and it's in the 90's.

Bottom line, the truck does a stellar job of keeping the battery happy. I have no concerns about DCFC or heat degrading it. I do try to keep the SOC over 15-20% though. It's about the only thing I can easily control to help longevity.

Glad the move seems to have been uneventful.

 

[chl]

Sounds like everything is ship shape and doing what it is supposed to do based on the knowledge base I have to go on from reading the tech literature and the posts about real world experiences here and elsewhere.

When we go on a long-ish trip in our Prius to visit one of our children, about a 600 mile trip, with rest stops along the way, we usually take a bit over 10 hours, sometimes longer closer to 12 hours if the traffic leaving our area is heavy.

So it is interesting to me how that compares to driving our 2023 Lightning Pro SR and making fast charging stops which I have not tried yet, and it seems to be fairly similar.

The Prius we drive averages about 50mpg on those mostly highway trips, and we would start with a full tank and use about a tank and a half of gas (around 12 gallons) so at $4/gal it would cost about $48 in fuel costs.

I am curious if you have a number for the charging expense to compare that with?

 

[B177y]

I am curious if you have a number for the charging expense to compare that with?

Plugging your info into ABRP will give you a pretty accurate estimate of charging cost for any trip.

 

[chl]

Plugging your info into ABRP will give you a pretty accurate estimate of charging cost for any trip.

Thanks, I haven't tried that.

Estimates are a good start, but real-world experience can vary a lot.

Using the 2mi/kWh, it would be about 300kWh, but is that a realistic m/kWh for highway driving at 70 mph?

How much fast charging costs per kWh is the other question - I think in Va the average is about 50 cents/kWh.
So it could be as much as $150 in electricity. I could deduct some of that cost by considering the at home charging to 100% at about 15 cents per kWh and just fast charge for say 450 miles.

So 225kWh at 50 cents is $112.50. Still more than double the fuel cost for the Prius, if cost was the only consideration.

Slowing down from 70 mph would use less but take longer. We never really cruise the whole trip at 70 mph, plenty of slow downs for traffic, road work or accidents.

 

[B177y]

Estimates are a good start, but real-world experience can vary a lot.

By "pretty good estimate" I mean within a few dollars. ABRP is accurate if you enter all of your information correctly and drive with it actively for a little bit to learn your actual consumption. It takes speed, temp, elevation changes, etc. into consideration. It gets more accurate the more you use it.

You can enter your own speed and day/date/time of day/battery degredation.... All sorts of variables to fine tune your estimate.

 

[chl]

By "pretty good estimate" I mean within a few dollars. ABRP is accurate if you enter all of your information correctly and drive with it actively for a little bit to learn your actual consumption. It takes speed, temp, elevation changes, etc. into consideration. It gets more accurate the more you use it.

You can enter your own speed and day/date/time of day/battery degredation.... All sorts of variables to fine tune your estimate.

Thanks, sounds good.

Yes, I read that connecting ABPR with the vehicle using an OBD link is the best method for using it.
I'll have to try that.

 

[B177y]

Thanks, sounds good.

Yes, I read that connecting ABPR with the vehicle using an OBD link is the best method for using it.
I'll have to try that.

I always forget that you have to purchase the ABRP subscription for $50/yr to get the increased functionality. IMHO it is worth it to support their development. It really is what the Ford Maps should be.

 

[seajai]

ABRP?
Is there an acronym list somewhere?

 

[TaxmanHog]

ABRP?
Is there an acronym list somewhere?

Acronyms
Acronyms, TLAs, and Initialisms

 

[Kipp]

A Better Route Planner. It’s an app.

 

[Joneii]

These temperatures didn’t used to move much. I have a 2022 with over 112,000 miles (many of them towing a 25’ Airstream). The first year and a half we never saw an increase in battery temps while DCFCing. Sometime about two years ago that changed. We now see increased temperatures routinely on the 2nd or third charge of the day on a road trip. It does add some time to those charges as the charging speed can be throttled to limit battery temps, but after a year and a half with various Ford dealers trying to help me figure out what changed, I’ve accepted this as the new normal. It is, however, new (only the last two years).

My unproven theory is that the charging curve changed slightly to allow higher peak charging speeds in the first 6-8 minutes of charging (in 2022 we got a max of about 173 kW/hr and now it maxes out around 185 kw/hr) and this increases the battery temps more. If you only DCFC once a day this benefits you with a faster charge. If you are towing and need to charge 5 times in a day, you will lose that benefit and then some due to high temperatures and throttling on your later charges. That’s my unsubstantiated hypothesis. I have the anecdotal data point of one truck to back it up.

 

[RickLightning]

I always forget that you have to purchase the ABRP subscription for $50/yr to get the increased functionality. IMHO it is worth it to support their development. It really is what the Ford Maps should be.

You can instead pay $4.95 a month. You can buy it before a trip, then cancel.

Second, you can use CarScanner to integrate with ABRP free edition, for free (well, you bought CarScanner, but that's a one-time purchase). I will be using this on an upcoming trip and we'll see how it works.

As to supporting ABRP development, ABRP has been owned by Rivian since June 2023. Rivian has been integrating the technology into their vehicles since then.

 

[chl]

These temperatures didn’t used to move much. I have a 2022 with over 112,000 miles (many of them towing a 25’ Airstream). The first year and a half we never saw an increase in battery temps while DCFCing. Sometime about two years ago that changed. We now see increased temperatures routinely on the 2nd or third charge of the day on a road trip. It does add some time to those charges as the charging speed can be throttled to limit battery temps, but after a year and a half with various Ford dealers trying to help me figure out what changed, I’ve accepted this as the new normal. It is, however, new (only the last two years).

My unproven theory is that the charging curve changed slightly to allow higher peak charging speeds in the first 6-8 minutes of charging (in 2022 we got a max of about 173 kW/hr and now it maxes out around 185 kw/hr) and this increases the battery temps more. If you only DCFC once a day this benefits you with a faster charge. If you are towing and need to charge 5 times in a day, you will lose that benefit and then some due to high temperatures and throttling on your later charges. That’s my unsubstantiated hypothesis. I have the anecdotal data point of one truck to back it up.

That was my first thought from your first paragraph as well.
Always pros and cons when things are changed - can't break the laws of physics easily.

 

[bananaslug79]

Thanks all, good discussion in here. So far as travel costs, I don't really worry about it anymore since everything costs so much more these days. I have a feeling if I truly added up what I paid for ~650 miles of fast charging (plus the "free" cost to have a 100% battery before leaving using solar panels at home), it would compare to a gas F-150 even with the ridiculous cost of fuel these days. Anecdotally, I estimate an average of $30 a fast charge session, so maybe about $400 for the round trip including tolls? The latter alone is close to $50 one way...

Doing the legit math I think would actually be comparable, but since we don't do a lot of long trips, usually charge from home, and considering the superior driving experience of electric, "savings" has never been a real big part of the EV experience for me .

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