Anyone reserving: GMC Sierra EV Denali today 10.20.22 @ 5PM ET ??

[IdeaOfTheDayCom]

100 miles in 10 minutes, only if SOC is less than 30%...

As a rule of thumb charging times will always vary quite a bit from the theoretical specs.

The funny thing is that the biggest hurdle for the general public to make the move is always range anxiety, but we can eliminate that anxiety thee ways

Bigger battery capactiy.
Better, faster chargers.
... Or simply MORE chargers.

As time goes by, the number of chargers will make range a moot point.

In fact, if chargers were fast and plentiful, we could actually have smaller batteries.

Larger battery capacities are a plus, but if we could charge as easily and frequently as we buy gas, we shouldn't need longer range batteries.

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[metroshot]

@metroshot I seem to recall a thread here that mentioned GM partnering with Pilot and EVgo to build out a network of chargers at Pilot stations.

That seems to be a good idea since I have way more EV Go stations (albeit ancient 50kW) around me than EA stations....

Don't know of any Pilot stations in California..

 

[Roy2001]

As a rule of thumb charging times will always vary quite a bit from the theoretical specs.

The funny thing is that the biggest hurdle for the general public to make the move is always range anxiety, but we can eliminate that anxiety two ways... better, faster chargers... or simply MORE (and faster) chargers.

As time goes by, the number of chargers will make range a moot point.

In fact, if chargers were fast and plentiful, we could actually have smaller batteries.

More RELIABLE chargers are the key.

~200kW is fast enough if chargers are widely available and reliable. Easy to use is also important.

 

[IdeaOfTheDayCom]

More RELIABLE chargers are the key.

~200kW is fast enough if chargers are widely available and reliable. Easy to use is also important.

I revised my post as you posted that reply.

I agree. Above every other technology inside our EVs, nothing is more critical than having MORE (and reliable) fast chargers.

Range issues vanish if we can stop just as easily for a charge as we can for gas.

 

[Rob G]

@metroshot I seem to recall a thread here that mentioned GM partnering with Pilot and EVgo to build out a network of chargers at Pilot stations.

Yes it will be branded the Ultium charge network.

 

[wighty]

I like the look better than the Silverado, and I really like the tailgate backstop + fold down rear cab to extend the bed that both of them have. I won't spend $107k on a truck, though, so will be eagerly awaiting orders opening for the lower trim.

 

[data003]

More RELIABLE chargers are the key.

~200kW is fast enough if chargers are widely available and reliable. Easy to use is also important.

It’s actually not enough if the chargers are limited to 200-300A. The low voltage state of the lightning battery pack is in the low 300s so if you do the math…

200,000w / 325v = 615A

For the lightning specifically you need to care about the maximum amps a charger can provide much more than a minimum total kW.

 

[ivan256]

As a rule of thumb charging times will always vary quite a bit from the theoretical specs.

The funny thing is that the biggest hurdle for the general public to make the move is always range anxiety, but we can eliminate that anxiety thee ways


Bigger battery capactiy.
Better, faster chargers.
... Or simply MORE chargers.

~200kW is fast enough if chargers are widely available and reliable. Easy to use is also important.

I can never resist jumping in when somebody mentions range "anxiety." I feel strongly that anybody who wants to see greater EV adoption does everybody a disservice by using the "A" word.

"Anxiety" is not the biggest hurdle to general public adoption. The issues are real problems, not fear of imagined problems. And the only real solutions are PHEVs or faster chargers.

IMO, range anxiety is a construct of multiple choice surveys and people not being very articulate about what they are thinking and feeling. They're smart enough to understand that there is a problem, or that a BEV will introduce inconvenience into their lives, but they're not capable of expressing what the issue is concisely enough to get their message through. And to make matters worse, the product as it stands today is generally pretty good. It does the vast majority of things that people need well enough. But there are many corner cases that are clearly problematic, and most people need one vehicle that covers the vast majority (not 90% or 99%... more like 99.9%) of their use cases.

If you are fully invested in the concept of a BEV, you might be willing to deal with the inconveniences. Or if you have a second car, you can use that when the EV doesn't work. We - people posting on an EV enthusiast forum - know this. We're cool with it.

We tend to wave our hands and talk about needing to stop to eat or pee anyway. But a normal person completely understands that if they have enough battery to get where they're going - but not back - that they need to spend 40+ minutes charging up at some crappy roadside convenience stop waiting for a charge rather than taking 5 minutes to gas up and spending the rest of that time at their destination. Odds are great that their destination doesn't have a fast enough charger to get them home, and even if it did the owner of the place might not be keen on spotting them $10 on their electric bill.

Those people will talk about how the range isn't good enough yet. And we'll translate that to "range anxiety." After all, they had enough range, but they thought it wasn't enough anyway!

The fact of the matter is that using a BEV outside of your typical commuter routine needs to be a lifestyle choice right now. And the ONLY way to fix it is with faster on-route charging. Home charging is never going to get significantly faster, and we're already at the point where bigger batteries won't charge to full overnight. More chargers helps with the fear of not finding an available charger, but move the needle on the best case scenario - where the charger is working and available and right where you need it but still takes the better part of an hour.

Charging rates need a factor of 10 bump. If we are going to go to 100% BEVs, 2mW is the target. Not 200kW.

And in the meantime, embrace PHEVs. They solve 100% of the customer use case - so it should be easier to get people to adopt them - and provide 90+% of the societal benefit.

(I went with the SR Lightning, BTW. I'm keeping my gas car for longer trips.)

 

[IdeaOfTheDayCom]

I can never resist jumping in when somebody mentions range "anxiety." I feel strongly that anybody who wants to see greater EV adoption does everybody a disservice by using the "A" word.

"Anxiety" is not the biggest hurdle to general public adoption. The issues are real problems, not fear of imagined problems. And the only real solutions are PHEVs or faster chargers.

I agree with most of what you say, but given a choice of longer range, faster chargers, or more chargers, I'd say the number of chargers will definitely have a bigger effect on mass adoption.

Ideally we should have all three, but if I could choose one, it would be to have more of them.

As I mentioned, bigger batteries with long range are nice... so are faster chargers, but most of the the general public would ditch ICE if there were more chargers along every road they intend to travel.

Non-EV drivers always ask me variations of the same things... What happens if you run out of power on the road? What about country roads? Aren't you afraid you'll get stuck somewhere? etc... etc..

People rarely question the time I may spend charging on the road, they seem more concerned with whether I'll be stuck someplace without finding a charger, largely because they haven't seen many chargers at rest areas.

The way I see it, rest areas are already strategically placed along all the major highways in the world. If they made an effort to install a couple of chargers at each rest area a lot of that fear of getting stuck on the road would go away.

I live on an island where there is literally one non-Tesla fast charger location, and it's in a beach parking lot... nowhere near a highway. It was put there to charge EVs for the Parks Department, but they allow the public to use it for up to 1 hour (there's a $1 per minute charge if you go over 1 hour).

One of my client's uses that charger because it's their only option for their 2 EV company cars. Their staff hates using it because they need to sit in their cars the entire hour car because it's not near food or shopping. It's a loss of productivity too, but that's another story (They're a green environmental company, so it fits their image).

IMO, range anxiety is a construct of multiple choice surveys and people not being very articulate about what they are thinking and feeling. They're smart enough to understand that there is a problem, or that a BEV will introduce inconvenience into their lives, but they're not capable of expressing what the issue is concisely enough to get their message through. And to make matters worse, the product as it stands today is generally pretty good. It does the vast majority of things that people need well enough. But there are many corner cases that are clearly problematic, and most people need one vehicle that covers the vast majority (not 90% or 99%... more like 99.9%) of their use cases.
...
(I went with the SR Lightning, BTW. I'm keeping my gas car for longer trips.)

I travel to the Adirondacks periodically where there are vast distances that don't even have a single fast charging location, or even cell phone towers. That means driving 50+ miles to charge, then 50+ miles back so you really need to take the time to carefully plan each day or you risk getting stuck (without a phone too).

My camping companions trust that I can manage the power situation, so they don't use the term range anxiety, but they do worry that we won't be able to find a charger when we need one.

Thanks to a video from TFL Trucks we learned about a solution. Campers like us love to find places in the middle of nowhere, so there are campsites in the middle of nowhere. So, it was just a matter of finding campsites that have 240V power for RVs so we can charge at night.

That solves the power problem for camping in the middle of nowhere, and it also underscores how we were able to eliminate the range problem by simply having a charger where and when we need it.

 

[sotek2345]

I agree with most of what you say, but given a choice of longer range, faster chargers, or more chargers, I'd say the number of chargers will definitely have a bigger effect on mass adoption.

Ideally we should have all three, but if I could choose one, it would be to have more of them.

As I mentioned, bigger batteries with long range are nice... so are faster chargers, but most of the the general public would ditch ICE if there were more chargers along every road they intend to travel.

Non-EV drivers always ask me variations of the same things... What happens if you run out of power on the road? What about country roads? Aren't you afraid you'll get stuck somewhere? etc... etc..

People rarely question the time I may spend charging on the road, they seem more concerned with whether I'll be stuck someplace without finding a charger, largely because they haven't seen many chargers at rest areas.

The way I see it, rest areas are already strategically placed along all the major highways in the world. If they made an effort to install a couple of chargers at each rest area a lot of that fear of getting stuck on the road would go away.

I live on an island where there is literally one non-Tesla fast charger location, and it's in a beach parking lot... nowhere near a highway. It was put there to charge EVs for the Parks Department, but they allow the public to use it for up to 1 hour (there's a $1 per minute charge if you go over 1 hour).

One of my client's uses that charger because it's their only option for their 2 EV company cars. Their staff hates using it because they need to sit in their cars the entire hour car because it's not near food or shopping. It's a loss of productivity too, but that's another story (They're a green environmental company, so it fits their image).



I travel to the Adirondacks periodically where there are vast distances that don't even have a single fast charging location, or even cell phone towers. That means driving 50+ miles to charge, then 50+ miles back so you really need to take the time to carefully plan each day or you risk getting stuck (without a phone too).

My camping companions trust that I can manage the power situation, so they don't use the term range anxiety, but they do worry that we won't be able to find a charger when we need one.

Thanks to a video from TFL Trucks we learned about a solution. Campers like us love to find places in the middle of nowhere, so there are campsites in the middle of nowhere. So, it was just a matter of finding campsites that have 240V power for RVs so we can charge at night.

That solves the power problem for camping in the middle of nowhere, and it also underscores how we were able to eliminate the range problem by simply having a charger where and when we need it.

Well the good news for NY at least is that they are retrofitting all throughway rest areas to have SC fast charging.

 

[IdeaOfTheDayCom]

Well the good news for NY at least is that they are retrofitting all throughway rest areas to have SC fast charging.

It's only a matter of time before all the major rest areas install charging stations. That will be a massive tipping point for the industry.

The cool thing about it is that compared to building a gas station, it's relatively easy to install an EV charging station. Gas stations require endless environmental red tape and extensive safety protocols to protect the environment and the surrounding area.

The biggest hurdle to installing a charger is working out the finances... Who gets the contract, how much they'll charge, etc.

 

[greenne]

It's only a matter of time before all the major rest areas install charging stations. That will be a massive tipping point for the industry.

The cool thing about it is that compared to building a gas station, it's relatively easy to install an EV charging station. Gas stations require endless environmental red tape and extensive safety protocols to protect the environment and the surrounding area.

The biggest hurdle to installing a charger is working out the finances... Who gets the contract, how much they'll charge, etc.

There's also a legal issue with putting private EV chargers at interstate(free) rest stops. New York, Ohio and others can get away with it on toll roads but there are regulations holding up putting them along free interstates directly.
(Also note that nearly every state's EV plan they had to submit for federal money spelled out chargers along major corridors--usually within 1mi of an interchange--but not located in rest areas)

They need to change the law to allow services along the highway.. including EV chargers. Have companies bid on the contracts like they do along tollroads. Have part of the profit or rent go into road repair fund. Seems like a win-win to me. (Canada has this figured out with the ONroute services as well as stops in Europe.)

Biden’s $5 Billion EV Charger Plan Skips Interstate Rest Stops (bloomberglaw.com)
EV charging needs a rethink: Add chargers to highway rest areas - Autoblog

 

[Texas Dan]

I just placed a reservation for the Silverado EV but I still have my reservation for the F150L. The main reasons I’m interested in the Silverado EV are that it has 80 miles more range than the F150L and the Silverado EV can charge twice as fast. The Silverado is going to be much more expensive but I’m starting to worry that if I don’t pay for more truck now I may really regret it later.

I’m still a year out from being able to convert my reservation into an order on the F150L and probably two years out on a Silverado EV. A lot could happen in the EV market between now and the time I have to place an order. I could cancel both my reservations and order something else or I could just wait until the trucks show up on dealer lots so I don’t have to hassle with the ordering process.

 

[sotek2345]

There's also a legal issue with putting private EV chargers at interstate(free) rest stops. New York, Ohio and others can get away with it on toll roads but there are regulations holding up putting them along free interstates directly.
(Also note that nearly every state's EV plan they had to submit for federal money spelled out chargers along major corridors--usually within 1mi of an interchange--but not located in rest areas)

They need to change the law to allow services along the highway.. including EV chargers. Have companies bid on the contracts like they do along tollroads. Have part of the profit or rent go into road repair fund. Seems like a win-win to me. (Canada has this figured out with the ONroute services as well as stops in Europe.)

Biden’s $5 Billion EV Charger Plan Skips Interstate Rest Stops (bloomberglaw.com)
EV charging needs a rethink: Add chargers to highway rest areas - Autoblog

Yeah, the NY rest stops are so nice and useful on trips. I have no idea why other states don't allow it.

 

[greenne]

Yeah, the NY rest stops are so nice and useful on trips. I have no idea why other states don't allow it.

To be fair i87(Northway) has really nice rest stops and the travel plazas on the thruway are funded privately(currently being remodeled).

The "rest areas" elsewhere are few and pretty crappy tbh. (I'm looking at you i88, i81!!)

**The Sothern tier Welcome Ctr is a cool stop though....

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