Asking for advice on a pull through layout.

[Jseis]

We’re putting in two; dual port Multi-adapter (J1772/NACS), 23’ long corded, ChargePoint L2 chargers (80 amp/~20kWh or 40-50 miles of range per hour, about what a layover-lunch would take) with easy on off highway access. The layout is pull through so a BEV + trailer theoretically has access to 2 chargers coming from either north or south. There’s about 70 feet between and in front/behind each charger location (1. or 2.) And if the BEV is w/out trailer it too has easy access to four chargers locations. The road curve will be straightened. The green is an island around a telephone pole and guy-wire (They are inside the green island, just a simple schematic depicted). We are at the 1/2 way point between south Puget Sound and WA-ORE border.

A food cart or two and a sit down cafe-in a retail store with a nice water side deck. Plenty of bathrooms and a shoreside park-like setting.

DCFCs were just too expensive. Comments or thoughts?

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[SpaceEVDriver]

For someone who doesn't know what I'm looking at, the image is difficult to decipher.

I suggest you sketch it without the real image underneath so it's just showing the things that are important to the layout.

 

[Scorpio3d]

For someone who doesn't know what I'm looking at, the image is difficult to decipher.

I suggest you sketch it without the real image underneath so it's just showing the things that are important to the layout.

I see what I believe to be a road and a building to the top left ”the white thing”
Also would be nice to see more of the area around what is currently included in addition to what @SpaceEVDriver said.

 

[Scorpio3d]

We’re putting in two; dual port Multi-adapter (J1772/NACS), 23’ long corded, ChargePoint L2 chargers (80 amp). The layout is pull through so a BEV + trailer theoretically has access to 2 chargers coming from either north or south. There’s about 70 feet between and in front/behind each charger location (1. or 2.) And if the BEV is w/out trailer it too has easy access to four chargers locations. The road curve will be straightened. The green is an island around a telephone pole and guy-wire (They are inside the green island, just a simple schematic depicted). We are at the 1/2 way point between south Puget Sound and WA-ORE border.

A food cart or two and a sit down cafe-in a retail store with a nice water side deck. Plenty of bathrooms and a shoreside park-like setting.

DCFCs were just too expensive. Comments or thoughts?

Are you planning on charging a fee for the ability to use them?
DCFCs are expensive, but you’re able to get much more throughput than you would with an 80 amp plug!

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

As far as L2 vs DCFC: you'll get more locals than people passing through, but otherwise I don't see any problems with that. Is the layout such that four trailering vehicles could, theoretically, make use of the charging station simultaneously?

If there's a cost associated with use, I would make it significantly cheaper than any DCFC in the area.

 

[RickLightning]

Before spending money, you need to identify the users of the charging. If there is DCFC on the route, they're not going to stop there. If you are filling a gap, they might with 80amps. Otherwise, it's locals only.

 

[Jseis]

Before spending money, you need to identify the users of the charging. If there is DCFC on the route, they're not going to stop there. If you are filling a gap, they might with 80amps. Otherwise, it's locals only.

no DCFCs on the route. Locals and coastal travelers. 10-12 cents per kWh.

 

[Jseis]

As far as L2 vs DCFC: you'll get more locals than people passing through, but otherwise I don't see any problems with that. Is the layout such that four trailering vehicles could, theoretically, make use of the charging station simultaneously?

If there's a cost associated with use, I would make it significantly cheaper than any DCFC in the area.

locals predominantly and as we are in the black hole of charging, might be a few months & years before DCFC pop up.

we are thinking 10 cents to 12 cents per kWh. An hour would put 40-50 miles on, enough to get 40-50 miles south to EA site. Mostly locals. And through RV & horse haulers headed to state parks, etc.

 

[Jseis]

We’re putting in two; dual port Multi-adapter (J1772/NACS), 23’ long corded, ChargePoint L2 chargers (80 amp). The layout is pull through so a BEV + trailer theoretically has access to 2 chargers coming from either north or south. There’s about 70 feet between and in front/behind each charger location (1. or 2.) And if the BEV is w/out trailer it too has easy access to four chargers locations. The road curve will be straightened. The green is an island around a telephone pole and guy-wire (They are inside the green island, just a simple schematic depicted). We are at the 1/2 way point between south Puget Sound and WA-ORE border.

A food cart or two and a sit down cafe-in a retail store with a nice water side deck. Plenty of bathrooms and a shoreside park-like setting.

DCFCs were just too expensive. Comments or thoughts?

For someone who doesn't know what I'm looking at, the image is difficult to decipher.

I suggest you sketch it without the real image underneath so it's just showing the things that are important to the layout.

that’s a google earth image underneath. The two charger sites are ~70 feet apart with an equal amount on either end.

I will probably tune it up a bit though this is to guide us on moving the road up and straighT. Our comment from a state finder was: Please consider pull through. Drive up stalls are easy put a pull through has different issues.

I probably should’ve put a scale on to. The principe reason is to have the scope and scale repaint to the pole, guy wire, radius, lane approach. The site is a popular fish and chips, retail, chill space-place. But local inexpensive chargers are needed as opposed to $.40/kWh sites. We‘ve cheap power too.

 

[Shmoe]

locals predominantly and as we are in the black hole of charging, might be a few months & years before DCFC pop up.

we are thinking 10 cents to 12 cents per kWh. An hour would put 40-50 miles on, enough to get 40-50 miles south to EA site. Mostly locals. And through RV & horse haulers headed to state parks, etc.

This seems like a big opportunity.. have you looked into any potential assistance/rebates/grants for the DCFC? NEVI is/was supposed to take care of these gaps, if it still exists at the end of the day.

 

[Jseis]

This seems like a big opportunity.. have you looked into any potential assistance/rebates/grants for the DCFC? NEVI is/was supposed to take care of these gaps, if it still exists at the end of the day.

Honestly, a bit slow on the uptake there but I did pick up about 60K grant $, so pretty much covered it. DCFC’s run nearly $100K and transformers can be 50K+ apiece. Plus a 300’ wire run . A lot of $$$ for one. We decided that pull through can serve future area jobbers (E-transit vans, one tons, etc.) as well as recreational vehicles. No one is focusing on pull through, and I saw a Lightning pulling an RV trailer on Wednesday so there could be an a modest BEV towing sector as well as BEV Jonesing for 50 more miles $2-$3 and a potty break, snack. We are running a 240V 400 amp panel. Our main panel is 240v 3000 amps serving 12 business sites of which 7 are filled!

 

[Yellow Buddy]

We’re putting in two; dual port Multi-adapter (J1772/NACS), 23’ long corded, ChargePoint L2 chargers (80 amp/~20kWh or 40-50 miles of range per hour, about what a layover-lunch would take) with easy on off highway access. The layout is pull through so a BEV + trailer theoretically has access to 2 chargers coming from either north or south. There’s about 70 feet between and in front/behind each charger location (1. or 2.) And if the BEV is w/out trailer it too has easy access to four chargers locations. The road curve will be straightened. The green is an island around a telephone pole and guy-wire (They are inside the green island, just a simple schematic depicted). We are at the 1/2 way point between south Puget Sound and WA-ORE border.

A food cart or two and a sit down cafe-in a retail store with a nice water side deck. Plenty of bathrooms and a shoreside park-like setting.

DCFCs were just too expensive. Comments or thoughts?

A pull through doesn’t seem necessary for your site with L2s, unless…are you allowing overnight parking?

If so, it would be a good mid-stop with an RV in tow. If not, I find it hard to justify stopping here without a DCFC. With a trailer in tow, I could get 25 miles of range during lunch…or I can stop somewhere else with DCFC and get 100+. It would be hard to justify

 

[Jseis]

As far as L2 vs DCFC: you'll get more locals than people passing through, but otherwise I don't see any problems with that. Is the layout such that four trailering vehicles could, theoretically, make use of the charging station simultaneously?

If there's a cost associated with use, I would make it significantly cheaper than any DCFC in the area.

Yes 4 at once. Around $.12 per kWh. a lot of summertime pass through headed from Puget Sound to SW WA and NW Oregon.

 

[CD4TNF]

Thank you for planing putting a charger out where you are.


Level 3 charging


This project wouldn't qualify for NEVI Phase 1 because OP is not on a travel corridor. Maybe for NEVI Phase 2. Worth checking with WA DOT.

What would be better is an Ionna Rechargery. Your setup sounds like what they are looking for. Site host, amenities and bathrooms.

https://www.ionna.com/rechargeries/host-a-rechargery/

Rivian might also be a good pick since they like to put their chargers out in remote spots.


I'm suggesting level 3s because your use case is ideal for dine, shop, and charge. 40-50 min stops.

One of the comments I get from folks is the charge time. "It takes me that long to charge?" That's going to be an issue with job related charging stops. Unless your local businesses have some financial incentives to purchase e-Transits or Brightdrops. It's going to be a long time before you get job related charging customers.


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Level 2 charging.

As a traveler I might use your level 2 for what your proposing. A little extra charge while I'm eating and exploring the local area. I wouldn't go out of my way to stop. The level 3 chargers up north looks more attractive to get me on my way.

Or I would use it as an overnight stop along the coast. Looks safe and out of the way. An 8hr idle fee time limit would get me off and still use it for overnight charging. A 4 hr idle fee would dissuade me from doing overnight charging.

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Site setup

If I'm understanding the picture correctly. You're doing two pull-thru lanes in the main road on the property? The roads on 1) the right and 2) top of the picture.

Currently, between the orange and white lines, EV trucks towing would have to pull in and face each other to use #1 and #2 simultaneously.

Here's an alternative idea. I'm imaging using both top and bottom of the green island.

Driving in from the left, Lightning, R1T, CT, Silverado EV have driver side charge ports, so will pull up to charger #1. This means traffic routes both ways around the green island. The benefit, it gets the EV truck and trailer out of the main road. They would pull-thru and exit going towards #2.

Driving in from the right, EV trucks towing will pull up to #2 from the top. That way someone could still pull in and use #1 from the bottom. Downside is this driver is still in the main road. Driver using #2 exits left.


The second alternative is just two dedicated pull thru lanes. Put #2 below #1 where the boomerang shape is. Simpler to route the traffic. More digging cost for cables and a second concrete pad for charger #2. Limits any expansion of the parking lot.

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That's my 2c.

 

[Jseis]

Thank you for planing putting a charger out where you are.


Level 3 charging


This project wouldn't qualify for NEVI Phase 1 because OP is not on a travel corridor. Maybe for NEVI Phase 2. Worth checking with WA DOT.

What would be better is an Ionna Rechargery. Your setup sounds like what they are looking for. Site host, amenities and bathrooms.

https://www.ionna.com/rechargeries/host-a-rechargery/

Rivian might also be a good pick since they like to put their chargers out in remote spots.


I'm suggesting level 3s because your use case is ideal for dine, shop, and charge. 40-50 min stops.

One of the comments I get from folks is the charge time. "It takes me that long to charge?" That's going to be an issue with job related charging stops. Unless your local businesses have some financial incentives to purchase e-Transits or Brightdrops. It's going to be a long time before you get job related charging customers.


----

Level 2 charging.

As a traveler I might use your level 2 for what your proposing. A little extra charge while I'm eating and exploring the local area. I wouldn't go out of my way to stop. The level 3 chargers up north looks more attractive to get me on my way.

Or I would use it as an overnight stop along the coast. Looks safe and out of the way. An 8hr idle fee time limit would get me off and still use it for overnight charging. A 4 hr idle fee would dissuade me from doing overnight charging.

-----


Site setup

If I'm understanding the picture correctly. You're doing two pull-thru lanes in the main road on the property? The roads on 1) the right and 2) top of the picture.

Currently, between the orange and white lines, EV trucks towing would have to pull in and face each other to use #1 and #2 simultaneously.

Here's an alternative idea. I'm imaging using both top and bottom of the green island.

Driving in from the left, Lightning, R1T, CT, Silverado EV have driver side charge ports, so will pull up to charger #1. This means traffic routes both ways around the green island. The benefit, it gets the EV truck and trailer out of the main road. They would pull-thru and exit going towards #2.

Driving in from the right, EV trucks towing will pull up to #2 from the top. That way someone could still pull in and use #1 from the bottom. Downside is this driver is still in the main road. Driver using #2 exits left.


The second alternative is just two dedicated pull thru lanes. Put #2 below #1 where the boomerang shape is. Simpler to route the traffic. More digging cost for cables and a second concrete pad for charger #2. Limits any expansion of the parking lot.

---
That's my 2c.

Yes two pull through lanes accessible from either side of #1. and #2. The 70’ foot length is greater than the 65’ legal limit of RV or truck towing a boat-or trailer-5th wheel. If a lane is open they can pull forward either side due to the 23’ long cord as each charger is dual port thus long units can charge simultaneously. We see this as a bridge until we acquire more land and update the site roads. This a direct off state highway access with room for longer rigs to maneuver.

The infrastructure for this $$$ cost is modest but DCFC is near 10X given increases transformer & power needs. As the site will eventually have more workers and is adjacent to a government office building we see local & general public accessing it morning, noon, early-mid afternoon and including travelers. Are well off the interstate highway system. 8 years ago this was noticed as a black hole in charging but nothing has encouraged any charging innovation-installations so we just are doing it. .

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