• 📊 Lightning Orders List: Add Yours Inside!
  • Welcome to F150Lightningforum.com everyone!

    If you're joining us from F150gen14.com, then you may already have an account here!

    If you were registered on F150gen14.com as of April 16, 2022 or earlier, then you can simply login here with the same username and password!

  • 📊 Lightning Owners Registry: Add Your Delivered Lightning!

Mach N Cheese

Active member
First Name
M
Joined
May 19, 2021
Threads
5
Messages
40
Reaction score
79
Location
Seattle
Vehicles
2022 F-150 Lightning
Occupation
Analyst
I know the Tesla comparisons have been beaten to death on the Mach-E forums but I have to say this thing blows the CyberTruck away. For $40k you get dual motors standard and TONS of options, which if you want the same in the CyberTruck you will pay $50k....and that's not even taking into account the $7.5k federal tax credit. That's a $17.5k difference...and a lot of after market mods! Also, tesla claims a +300 mile range on the dual motor but that's likely overstated as with their other vehicles, I would bet that Ford's extended range option will win in the real world....assuming that the CyberTruck makes it to market.

1621530256851.png
 

timhood

New member
First Name
Tim
Joined
May 20, 2021
Threads
0
Messages
2
Reaction score
3
Location
Utah
Vehicles
Several including upcoming Bronco
I know the Tesla comparisons have been beaten to death on the Mach-E forums but I have to say this thing blows the CyberTruck away. For $40k you get dual motors standard and TONS of options, which if you want the same in the CyberTruck you will pay $50k....and that's not even taking into account the $7.5k federal tax credit. That's a $17.5k difference...and a lot of after market mods! Also, tesla claims a +300 mile range on the dual motor but that's likely overstated as with their other vehicles, I would bet that Ford's extended range option will win in the real world....assuming that the CyberTruck makes it to market.

1621530256851.png
Gotta love that "Full Self Driving" for $10K. There seems to be a long line of Tesla owners who prepaid for that "coming soon" option and didn't get it. Where's the * for the disclaimer about how it's not really Level 5 self-driving?

I think Ford can win here on looks if everything else is competitive. Hopefully it plans to ramp-up production so that would-be owners left waiting don't defect.
 

Vulnox

Well-known member
First Name
Bob
Joined
Mar 19, 2021
Threads
1
Messages
344
Reaction score
184
Location
Livonia, MI
Vehicles
2021 F-150 Lariat 502A, 3.5L PowerBoost
Yeah, the Cybertruck has some nice tech, and seems competitive in pricing given than the XLT F-150 Extended Ranger is I believe more than the CT dual motor price. Tesla also rules the road so far with the SuperCharger network.

But, the CyberTruck is just a heavy, unattractive (my opinion), behemoth. I want something that looks like an F-150 I already love, just with a BEV powertrain, and the Lightning nails it. ProPower is also great, and I just have more faith in Ford delivering on the truck side in terms of real-world capability and control than Tesla. Tesla does fantastic with their cars/Model Y, but there is an ocean of distance between road cars and a truck.
 


astricklin

Well-known member
First Name
Andrew
Joined
May 24, 2021
Threads
2
Messages
1,038
Reaction score
1,010
Location
Dallas
Vehicles
99 Mercury mountaineer
What you currently get with Tesla self driving is basically the hands free cruise. Ford is calling their version of this blue cruise and it looks like it will not be available on the XLT, only the higher trims. Based on the trim level PDF posted on the specs thread here.
 

ChasingCoral

Well-known member
First Name
Mark
Joined
May 3, 2021
Threads
23
Messages
330
Reaction score
405
Location
Silver Spring, MD
Vehicles
2021 Mustang Mach E, 2016 Leaf, 2003 Toyota Tacoma
Occupation
retired oceanographer
Tesla also rules the road so far with the SuperCharger network.
With the continued rapid build-out of Electrify America stations, CCS chargers will soon outnumber Tesla Superchargers. That's not including the proposed Biden infrastructure plan targeting 500,000 EV charging stations.

Just remember that the lowest density of BEV chargers you will ever see is the one that exists now. The networks are growing daily.
 

Sam James

Well-known member
First Name
Sam
Joined
May 15, 2021
Threads
1
Messages
349
Reaction score
536
Location
Missouri
Vehicles
22 Ford Lightning Lariat ER, 21 VW ID.4 Pro S RWD
Occupation
Accountant
Yeah, the Cybertruck has some nice tech, and seems competitive in pricing given than the XLT F-150 Extended Ranger is I believe more than the CT dual motor price. Tesla also rules the road so far with the SuperCharger network.

But, the CyberTruck is just a heavy, unattractive (my opinion), behemoth. I want something that looks like an F-150 I already love, just with a BEV powertrain, and the Lightning nails it. ProPower is also great, and I just have more faith in Ford delivering on the truck side in terms of real-world capability and control than Tesla. Tesla does fantastic with their cars/Model Y, but there is an ocean of distance between road cars and a truck.
Not to mention we’ll probably be living with the ‘22 Lightning for 18 months, maybe 2 years, or so before CT orders are delivered. We can only guess how much it’ll be hamstrung or priced by then.
 

Vulnox

Well-known member
First Name
Bob
Joined
Mar 19, 2021
Threads
1
Messages
344
Reaction score
184
Location
Livonia, MI
Vehicles
2021 F-150 Lariat 502A, 3.5L PowerBoost
With the continued rapid build-out of Electrify America stations, CCS chargers will soon outnumber Tesla Superchargers. That's not including the proposed Biden infrastructure plan targeting 500,000 EV charging stations.

Just remember that the lowest density of BEV chargers you will ever see is the one that exists now. The networks are growing daily.
Oh yeah, but like most things technology, there is far more to it than ticking off boxes on a stats page. I don't own a Mach E, but have some YouTube channels I watch where they test and road trip tons of EVs. OutofSpecMotoring is one of my favorite for true road trips, that guy drives EVs across the country and even holds some cannonball records for EVs. He owns mainly Tesla, but he has always struck me as being very fair and has never been hesitant to give his complaints about them.

Anyway, he did a long road trip in the Mach E, and his experience, on video, was the same I have seen from other long term reviewers. The plug and charge takes an extra minute or so to complete over activating by app and plugging in, which kind of sucks. He had a lot of issues where it just timed out and the car charging experience behaved in an odd way (charging at very slow speeds).

When he switched to activating by the app then plugging in, it was much more reliable. But the charging curve is still not ideal. He got it to hit 160KW charging, but it only lasted 5-10 minutes, then it dropped to 105ish, and would hold around there. Which every EV doesn't hold peak constantly, but if he unplugged, plugged back in, and started a new session, it went back to 160, again for 5-10 minutes. So it isn't due to battery level like is generally the cause of rate drop, he said it seems to have no clear logic, the Mach E should be more than capable of charging at that rate for a longer period, that it lets you hit that rate again within seconds of unplugging but only does for another 10 minutes indicates it isn't battery temp.

So there is more than just number of chargers, there is maturity, in both the EA network itself (he ran into many where it just wouldn't even charge due to station issues, which happens with SuperCharger stations obviously, but he said the rate was significantly higher), and in what Ford pushed out for a charging curve on the Mach E.

Thankfully, all these issues should be fixable by software. When he did the cannonball in the Porsche Taycan, the EA network was able to keep up with higher charge rates.

The only issues he ever really ran into with SuperCharger/Tesla road trips were when he ran into a V2 station where it was pretty busy, because the V2s split power since they share a power source (so 150KW charging becomes 75KW), and the V2s had overheating handles (he resolves by putting a wet rag over the handle, haha), but otherwise it was almost always flawless.

The promising part though is that Tesla moved on to the V3 chargers that have none of the limitations of the V2 chargers. But that is my point really, Tesla is ahead in both station count, and more importantly, maturity of the network. Ford and others need to catch up quick in count and maturity to really bring in users.

I have complete faith they will, I wouldn't have reserved a Lightning if I didn't think it was possible. But when it came time to select our new car this year, it was either going to be a PB F-150 or Mach E, and when I saw the road trip charging issues with the Mach E, I knew it just wasn't ready for me, at least not as our primary vehicle. Ford has shown serious commitment to getting caught up though, so I know they will have my EV money sooner than later. :)
 

ChasingCoral

Well-known member
First Name
Mark
Joined
May 3, 2021
Threads
23
Messages
330
Reaction score
405
Location
Silver Spring, MD
Vehicles
2021 Mustang Mach E, 2016 Leaf, 2003 Toyota Tacoma
Occupation
retired oceanographer
Oh yeah, but like most things technology, there is far more to it than ticking off boxes on a stats page. I don't own a Mach E, but have some YouTube channels I watch where they test and road trip tons of EVs. OutofSpecMotoring is one of my favorite for true road trips, that guy drives EVs across the country and even holds some cannonball records for EVs. He owns mainly Tesla, but he has always struck me as being very fair and has never been hesitant to give his complaints about them.

Anyway, he did a long road trip in the Mach E, and his experience, on video, was the same I have seen from other long term reviewers. The plug and charge takes an extra minute or so to complete over activating by app and plugging in, which kind of sucks. He had a lot of issues where it just timed out and the car charging experience behaved in an odd way (charging at very slow speeds).

When he switched to activating by the app then plugging in, it was much more reliable. But the charging curve is still not ideal. He got it to hit 160KW charging, but it only lasted 5-10 minutes, then it dropped to 105ish, and would hold around there. Which every EV doesn't hold peak constantly, but if he unplugged, plugged back in, and started a new session, it went back to 160, again for 5-10 minutes. So it isn't due to battery level like is generally the cause of rate drop, he said it seems to have no clear logic, the Mach E should be more than capable of charging at that rate for a longer period, that it lets you hit that rate again within seconds of unplugging but only does for another 10 minutes indicates it isn't battery temp.

So there is more than just number of chargers, there is maturity, in both the EA network itself (he ran into many where it just wouldn't even charge due to station issues, which happens with SuperCharger stations obviously, but he said the rate was significantly higher), and in what Ford pushed out for a charging curve on the Mach E.

Thankfully, all these issues should be fixable by software. When he did the cannonball in the Porsche Taycan, the EA network was able to keep up with higher charge rates.

The only issues he ever really ran into with SuperCharger/Tesla road trips were when he ran into a V2 station where it was pretty busy, because the V2s split power since they share a power source (so 150KW charging becomes 75KW), and the V2s had overheating handles (he resolves by putting a wet rag over the handle, haha), but otherwise it was almost always flawless.

The promising part though is that Tesla moved on to the V3 chargers that have none of the limitations of the V2 chargers. But that is my point really, Tesla is ahead in both station count, and more importantly, maturity of the network. Ford and others need to catch up quick in count and maturity to really bring in users.

I have complete faith they will, I wouldn't have reserved a Lightning if I didn't think it was possible. But when it came time to select our new car this year, it was either going to be a PB F-150 or Mach E, and when I saw the road trip charging issues with the Mach E, I knew it just wasn't ready for me, at least not as our primary vehicle. Ford has shown serious commitment to getting caught up though, so I know they will have my EV money sooner than later. :)
Fortunately many of those early P&C issues have been resolved. If you’ve seen Kyle’s subsequent video, P&C did better for him. I’ve used up all of the free 250kWh of charging Ford gave me at First using P&C and it’s working pretty well. I have another 250 they added and will see how much better it’s doing on my next road trip.
 


Vulnox

Well-known member
First Name
Bob
Joined
Mar 19, 2021
Threads
1
Messages
344
Reaction score
184
Location
Livonia, MI
Vehicles
2021 F-150 Lariat 502A, 3.5L PowerBoost
Fortunately many of those early P&C issues have been resolved. If you’ve seen Kyle’s subsequent video, P&C did better for him. I’ve used up all of the free 250kWh of charging Ford gave me at First using P&C and it’s working pretty well. I have another 250 they added and will see how much better it’s doing on my next road trip.
That's great to hear! I love hearing your side of it as well, as I freely and openly admit my "experience" with the Mach E is purely as a 3rd party. We had a C-Max Energi, which we loved, but that's as heavily as we have waded into the BEV waters ourselves. I try to keep up on it all though.
 

ChasingCoral

Well-known member
First Name
Mark
Joined
May 3, 2021
Threads
23
Messages
330
Reaction score
405
Location
Silver Spring, MD
Vehicles
2021 Mustang Mach E, 2016 Leaf, 2003 Toyota Tacoma
Occupation
retired oceanographer
That's great to hear! I love hearing your side of it as well, as I freely and openly admit my "experience" with the Mach E is purely as a 3rd party. We had a C-Max Energi, which we loved, but that's as heavily as we have waded into the BEV waters ourselves. I try to keep up on it all though.
They have another year to get all of these bugs worked out before Lightning strikes!
 

Kamuelaflyer

Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
May 20, 2021
Threads
0
Messages
17
Reaction score
10
Location
Hawaii
Vehicles
Ford Raptor, Ford Mustang Mach-e
With the continued rapid build-out of Electrify America stations, CCS chargers will soon outnumber Tesla Superchargers. That's not including the proposed Biden infrastructure plan targeting 500,000 EV charging stations.

Just remember that the lowest density of BEV chargers you will ever see is the one that exists now. The networks are growing daily.
My wife asked how she could drive this thing between the SFO Bay Area and Central Oregon. She then found the Ford Map and the EA map. It's not even an issue.

And looking at the Biden plan? Not an issue on this island either.
 

currybob

Well-known member
First Name
Bob
Joined
Aug 6, 2020
Threads
4
Messages
2,126
Reaction score
210
Location
Alexandria Alabama
Vehicles
2021KRF150 PB; 2020 LexusRX350; 2021 Mazda Miata
Occupation
Retired Physicist from federal government; Army Veteran
My fear is the power grid our country currently has. As more and more EVs start to hit the road, the strain on the power grid is going to be huge. Heck, many parts of the country can not handle summer time now.
 

Niterider

Well-known member
First Name
Shawn
Joined
Mar 1, 2021
Threads
1
Messages
140
Reaction score
11
Location
Indiana
Vehicles
2021 F-150
Occupation
factory worker
My fear is the power grid our country currently has. As more and more EVs start to hit the road, the strain on the power grid is going to be huge. Heck, many parts of the country can not handle summer time now.
As long as you don't live in Texas, you should be fine.

I'm starting to think that the power company's are already starting to prepare for this EV future. The past several months they have been updating the rural power lines in the area where I live in Indiana. Several miles of new poles placed and upgraded to three-phase service. I now could put my own supercharger station in at home...

 

 
AOSK
Top