Important Update: Ford EV Roadmap & Future of F-150 Lightning (EREV Next Gen Model) - ⛔️ ADMIN WARNING: NO POLITICS

[hoovertac]

While I can appreciate Fords need adapt to the realities of the market, I still think the decision to kill the lightning is backwards & disappointing. This could make it difficult to trust in Fords ability to stand by their next EV and gives other companies who are more loyal to their models a chance to be more established.

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[Literider150]

Will be interesting to see the cost. The US market isn't there for a fully electric full size truck at present cost and I'd be surprised if an erev is going to be the answer. Ford really didn't give the lightning much of a chance from the beginning considering the poorly trained sales staff and slow as molasses update process. This just reaffirms the fact that China is going to eat everyone's lunch.

To be fair, I don't think there were many of the American dealerships who were ready for this transition to electric. We leased a 2022 Kia EV6 in the fall of that year. The dealership had just hired a specialist in the service dept. who didn't know as much about the car as I did. We took it in to them because the home charging was having problems. It would slow down and then completely stop way before the charging was finished. There were multiple updates that were supposed to fix the problem. Where I live the updates didn't work through wifi and we get no cell service here. So we made multiple trips to the dealer to have them do the updates there - I don't think Kia even provided some of these updates OTA at all. Some of them they did push out OTA. We now have a 2024 that doesn't seem to have that charging problem and we love the car. It fits our lifestyle as does the 2024 F-150 that we are leasing. The convenience of charging at home is underrated and is the best thing about an EV.

I'm going to keep the Lightning if the financing on it makes it possible for us on a retirement income. Since so many Americans make their living off of loaning money to people who don't have much income, I'm not holding out much hope that there will be an acceptable interest rate in about a year and 1/2. My truck is going to have low mileage when the lease is up. I don't know how that is going to affect things at that time. But until then, I thank Ford for making this wonderful vehicle which I love to drive and use. We had another power outage in my area last week that lasted for 4 hours. So glad I could hook up the F-150 to my house and keep our pumps going for our geothermal heat and keep our freezers going. We have the V2L on the EV6 but, at only 120V, it only powers half our circuit panel. The relatively short trip to the city for supplies can be made twice with one charge on the truck with the ER battery and it is good in the snow.

 

[2wheeltraveler]

Questions for @Ford Motor Company

• What is the estimated EV only range?
• What is the estimated towing capacity / targets? (This is important as Scout announced lower towering capacity for their gas extender version than their BEV version)
• Will there still Be a frunk or will the engine take its place? If there is a frunk, is it anticipated to be a similar size (please say yes)
• Any cost estimates (Keep at current BEV pricing, due to advanced battery tech, insourcing and/or pack size, etc)
• What is the expected behavior when towing long distances, can you keep filling up and keep driving, or do you have to stop and charge, just after longer intervals because the generator can’t keep up with that level of energy depletion?
• Is 10 years support from model year, or announcement date?
• What battery architecture are you targeting (sounds like LFP)?
• What charging architecture are you targeting, 400v, 800v, etc?
• What changes will there be to Pro Power Onboard? Will there still be 2 separate inverters or will you have 1 inverter that can offboard 9.7 or higher kWh?
• Will these be an EREV specific design, or will it similarly be based on a shared F-150 ICE platform?

Thanks in advance for any answers you can provide and thanks for taking the time to address the forum!

 

[Newton]

These are good questions. In my opinion, It cannot possibly have a meaningful frunk if it still looks like an F-150 with a 5.5' bed and a Crew Cab. "Generator" does not mean one of those portable Honda things that you buy at Home Depot. The only EREV truck that is close to market uses the Pentastar V6. I believe that it is a little larger than the current Ford Ecoboost engines, and there still has to be space to wedge the very large alternator in somewhere. The BMW i3 used a 34HP motorcycle engine that would have been enough to power the tiny car if it were an ICE - at least in Europe!

I also believe that if Ford can't make money selling the Lightning because they are too expensive, there is no way that they can add an engine and make it any cheaper. Batteries are not expensive enough any more where the battery size savings make up for the cost of the engine. Additionally, the Ramcharger uses a battery as large as the SR Lightning.

I , too, am very curious about your fifth question. The Ramcharger claims a 690 mile range which obviously is to give us some comfort when towing. My question is what happens after the battery is used up? If the battery reserves are being used to supplement the power from the generator (which cannot be supplying 250 kw to the front and rear wheels unless this thing is the size of a semi) what happens when those reserves run out? If someone is on a long camping trip and is completely allergic to fast chargers, after one week there isn't going to be anything left in the battery to supplement the power from the generator. Does this mean that you have to hit both a gas station and a fast charger? Run the thing at idle for five hours?

I see very little clarity from the EREV proponents on how this part actually works. My guess is that they can make some assumptions about how the vehicle is used (the generator recharges the battery when there is not a big demand on the motors) but now we are in the "reinventing the automobile" territory which is pretty crazy when we have three time tested solutions (ICE, PHEV, EV) that work quite well.

 

[Cvh8601]

I also believe that if Ford can't make money selling the Lightning because they are too expensive, there is no way that they can add an engine and make it any cheaper. Batteries are not expensive enough any more where the battery size savings make up for the cost of the engine. Additionally, the Ramcharger uses a battery as large as the SR Lightning.

This is the part that doesn’t make sense. EREV, from Ford or Scout or anyone, seems like a low-volume model for people who do serious towing and are willing to put up with the downsides of ICE to do it.

Ford claims they couldn’t produce lightning cheaply enough. How can they possibly add thousands of parts and make the system far more complicated at a cheaper price? Does not add up.

 

[Newton]

Also, don't tell me that this is just like a Diesel Electric locomotive. They don't have batteries, at least until recently. Diesel Electric locomotives and ferries use absolutely enormous diesel generators that are connected to an electric motor, but they supply all of the motive power. It is like they have an electric rather than mechanical transmission.

If I understand it, which I may not, the EREV uses the generator to supplement the power from the batteries. If the generator is running and the electric motors are using less power than the generator supplies, then ideally the batteries will be charged with the excess. Perhaps. It is complicated and depends on the battery SOC. If the motors ask for more than the generator can supply (which I *think* is possible) then the batteries will supplement it. If the batteries are completely dead, well it gets complicated.

 

[Jseis]

Here’s the market 2024. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to equate less costly gas geography with ICE dominance. And BEVs with lest costly power? that’s less clear but for sure where we live.

 

[B177y]

Here’s the market 2024. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to equate less costly gas geography with ICE dominance. And BEVs with lest costly power? that’s less clear but for sure where we live.

Funny that my list of states that I would consider moving to when I finally get to leave WA almost completely match the F150 states. I'm still going to take my Lightning with me though.

 

[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

CA has 40 million poeple, ND has 800 thousand?
CA has some of the highest cost Electricity, but Tesla is the #1 in sales?
Ford F-series includes the Lightning.

 

[sysop1]

CA has 40 million poeple, ND has 800 thousand?
CA has some of the highest cost Electricity, but Tesla is the #1 in sales?
Ford F-series includes the Lightning.

I don't think paying $0.11/kW is that high for being in SoCal.

 

[MDErnst]

CA has some of the highest cost Electricity, but Tesla is the #1 in sales?

CA probably has the highest priced gasoline / diesel as well.

 

[Landscaper]

Here’s the market 2024. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to equate less costly gas geography with ICE dominance. And BEVs with lest costly power? that’s less clear but for sure where we live.

Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to loosely connect geography and political leanings either.

 

[Ford Motor Company]

Questions for @Ford Motor Company

• What is the estimated EV only range?
• What is the estimated towing capacity / targets? (This is important as Scout announced lower towering capacity for their gas extender version than their BEV version)
• Will there still Be a frunk or will the engine take its place? If there is a frunk, is it anticipated to be a similar size (please say yes)
• Any cost estimates (Keep at current BEV pricing, due to advanced battery tech, insourcing and/or pack size, etc)
• What is the expected behavior when towing long distances, can you keep filling up and keep driving, or do you have to stop and charge, just after longer intervals because the generator can’t keep up with that level of energy depletion?
• Is 10 years support from model year, or announcement date?
• What battery architecture are you targeting (sounds like LFP)?
• What charging architecture are you targeting, 400v, 800v, etc?
• What changes will there be to Pro Power Onboard? Will there still be 2 separate inverters or will you have 1 inverter that can offboard 9.7 or higher kWh?
• Will these be an EREV specific design, or will it similarly be based on a shared F-150 ICE platform?

Thanks in advance for any answers you can provide and thanks for taking the time to address the forum!

I won't be able to answer these (yet). But I'm saving them in an "EREV" document now so I can come back to them when I can.

 

[SomeStupidDriver]

While I can appreciate Fords need adapt to the realities of the market, I still think the decision to kill the lightning is backwards & disappointing. This could make it difficult to trust in Fords ability to stand by their next EV and gives other companies who are more loyal to their models a chance to be more established.

This is it for me. This is my first Ford and the best truck ive owned and we loved it so much it pushed my wife into getting a Mach E. They'd likely have had Ford family for life, but now it will be the last Fords we own, not going to allow another rug pull despite how happy I am with the vehicle.

 

[tbkahuna]

Should all us Ford 150 Lightning owners get together and start a class action suit? We bought these vehicles because we were promised this wouldn't happen and that the resale value of our vehicles would be within the normal curve. Will Ford buy back our vehicles at what would have been the the normal prorated value if they hadn't dicountinued the technology?

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