Is NEVI dead?

[Henry Ford]

I was able to spend some time digging into this further… no other reason than I like knowing the facts and I dont want to state something incorrectly.

As I previously stated, as long as you are only referring to Magic Docks (CCS Superchargers) Your statement that Tesla “opened up use of its chargers because it wanted access to (Federal) money” is true. I (perhaps incorrectly) inferred your statement to also be stating (as others have stated on here before) that the Opening of NACS also was done for Federal money which I’ve seen no evidence to support. More details below…

One thing I will say I have screwed up for a while, is that I was under the belief NEVI was part of the larger IRA bill, but it was actually part of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law (BIL) signed into law a several months before IRA.

The article you reference is quite vague and in no way states what exactly the “federal grants” are and how much. However at that time is was widely reported that funding was part of the NEVI / BIL and not a separate carve out for Tesla (see Whitehouse link below). Thus, since the vast majority of states NEVI plans still require a CCS port existing NACS only would not qualify, supporting my statement that NACS access via adapter is in no way related to the article you linked regarding Federal grants.

Additionally, Since the Ford NACS announcement occurred 3 months after the article you posted and completely blind sided everyone in the industry. If it were true that the article posted was also for Tesla opening NACS then the Ford NACS announcement would not have surprised anyone. Which it quite obviously did.

I will also note that the amount of superchargers discussed in these 2 different programs / announcements is incongruent (3,500 vs 12,000) making it hard to believe these programs / announcements were in any manner related.


Timeline of events….

11/2021 - Bipartisan Infrastructure Law (BIL) (also called the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act - IIJA), passed in November 2021, created the NEVI program with $7.5 billion in funding to expand the U.S. EV charging network. NEVI specifically focuses on building a national network of EV chargers, ensuring they are reliable, accessible, and meet federal standards.

8/2022 - The Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) (passed in August 2022) does not include the NEVI program. Instead, the IRA provides tax credits and incentives for EV purchases, battery production, and manufacturing clean energy components.

2/15/2023 - The article you shared and correlating White House announcement for grants to provide to 3,500 250 kW Superchargers and additional specifics about NEVI / BIL and many other charge providers .

2/23/2023 - First reports of Tesla Magic Docks are seen in the wild in Upstate New York. (Note within days of the White House announcement)

5/22/2023 - Ford/Tesla announced this agreement will give Ford drivers access to over 12,000 superchargers.

Some other things to note about the Data… Tesla not surprisingly is asking for by far the least amount of Federal grant money per port and thus the best steward of our tax dollars as part of NEVI. Per the https://evstates.org/awards-dashboard/ that @Firn linked. (see attached of per port Funding for top 5 recipients to date)

A few references...

.... the announcement of the Magic Docks and states the following…. “That may be changing, as Tesla will open up its network, 7,500 Superchargers (that portion is incorrect, because they are lumping Level 2’s in to get to that 7,500 number) , to all EVs by the end of next year. The new stations with universal connections are known as “Magic Dock” units”

https://bidenwhitehouse.archives.go...tric-vehicle-chargers/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Thanks for doing the research.

I don't think we need to get further in the weeds. My point is that Elon Musk has a giant conflict of interest and some recent federal policies seem to be favorable to his personal interests. That tends to piss people off.

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[luebri]

. My point is that Elon Musk has a giant conflict of interest and some recent federal policies seem to be favorable to his personal interests. That tends to piss people off.

A few retorts/comments… political influence for personal gain is something to be weary of, but also a tale as old as time.

As far as Elon’s involvement in this administration, it was very open and clear as he was out on the campaign trail what his involvement would be and the American people voted for that. I’m not sure I’d say the same for some of the billionaire fat cats on the other side regarding transparency.


Regarding NEVI, if I was Elon and had primarily self-funded an entire grade A charging network and none of my competition could pull it off, so the government launched a $7.5 billion program specifically to compete against me, I’d be a little chafed to.

 

[RickLightning]

Tesla will open some of its fast chargers, which had been exclusive to its customers, to all electric vehicles by the end of next year, the Biden administration said on Wednesday as it announced a broad effort to improve charging and encourage more people to buy battery-powered vehicles.

Paywall. Cant read, but my understanding is that agreement was for Magic Docks and outside of the IRA/NEVI and also not related to NACS access via adapter. If im wrong, on that I appreciate you educating me on the matter.

Correct. This was Magic Docks. They were to open 3,500 by end of 2024. They fell miserably short, with no apparent repercussions.

I just looked today, per PlugShare there are 132 locations. That's up sharply from last summer, but still far short of the commitment.

https://www.plugshare.com/map/tesla-ccs-locations

 

[luebri]

They were to open 3,500 by end of 2024. They fell miserably short, with no apparent repercussions.

TLDR; So this is the part of my research where I struggled to find clear answers. Is the Tesla 3500 magic dock agreement part of NEVI (as was reported) or a separate special carveout?

Your statement is correct, they did fall amazingly short of that goal.

However, if true that this agreement was part of NEVI / BIL as many journalists reported it was, as the announcement did correlate with other announcements / partnerships as part of NEVI. If so the 3500 goal be it set by the Biden administration or Tesla or jointly was beyond foolish based on the requirements to navigate the bureaucracy of the NEVI program itself and the layering in of each states unique version / plan. As has been proven, no provider has been able to navigate and get installs done quickly through this program. Regarding "repercussions" the grants from my research "Under the NEVI Formula Program, reimbursements are typically processed after the completion of construction and the commissioning of EV charging stations" so Tesla's repercussion would be not getting the money until the install is done. So the longer it takes, the longer to get the money. In my opinion if there are any fingers to point for sluggishness of NEVI it is the Biden Administration and the crafters of the program.

The only way the 3500 by 2024 goal could have ever been done is if the Biden administration and Tesla had come to a completely separate agreement outside of NEVI requirements. I do not believe that occurred, and if it did I certainly cannot find any evidence of it. If it did occur, as a taxpayer that would be very dissapointing if such an agreement was put in place with zero transparency.

 

[RickLightning]

I agree there is no evidence of any separate agreement. It's impossible to tell whether they got funds or not. However, The White House made the announcement, and Tesla never said it wasn't correct, and they didn't come close to meeting it.

 

[luebri]

I agree there is no evidence of any separate agreement. It's impossible to tell whether they got funds or not. However, The White House made the announcement, and Tesla never said it wasn't correct, and they didn't come close to meeting it.

Agreed completely, and as I stated if that announcement was done under the restrictions of NEVI that lofty goal was beyond foolish and egg on the face of both Tesla and the Biden administration.

 

[carys98]

Agreed completely, and as I stated if that announcement was done under the restrictions of NEVI that lofty goal was beyond foolish and egg on the face of both Tesla and the Biden administration.

Tesla is applying for and receiving NEVI money for new stations. This is the first phase in Virginia.

 

[luebri]

Tesla is applying for and receiving NEVI money for new stations. This is the first phase in Virginia.

Correct there is no debate regarding that. In most if not all states the NEVI money awarded to Tesla will be new V4 installs with CCS (Magic Dock).

Same here in Wisconsin, they were only awarded 2 sites. Which is disappointing, since they are considerably less expensive per site and even more cost effective per port. We'd be getting more bang for our taxpayer buck the more Tesla gets awarded.

As stated in post #33 above. According to https://evstates.org/awards-dashboard/ Tesla has been awarded ~31M so far which is 3rd most to date.

Obviously per the point of this thread this is now a bit up in the air how it will play out based on the Trump administrations desire to stop this program.

 

[Henry Ford]

As far as Elon’s involvement in this administration, it was very open and clear as he was out on the campaign trail what his involvement would be and the American people voted for that. I’m not sure I’d say the same for some of the billionaire fat cats on the other side regarding transparency.

We aren't living in the same reality if you think Musk's role in government is transparent. He received zero votes, wasn't confirmed by the Senate, has divested nothing, is trying to takeover OpenAI, and the only assurance from the actual President about Musk is "oh, he's not gaining anything." In my reality that's not open or clear.

 

[luebri]

We aren't living in the same reality if you think Musk's role in government is transparent. He received zero votes, wasn't confirmed by the Senate, has divested nothing, is trying to takeover OpenAI, and the only assurance from the actual President about Musk is "oh, he's not gaining anything." In my reality that's not open or clear.

DOGE, the purpose of it, and Elons role leading it was discussed starting in August. This was no suprise to the American voter by early November. They voted accordingly.

There are several positions high-ranking government officials that are not cabinet-level and thus dont need Senate approval. Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (Fauci) comes to mind, wow... he sure ended up with a lot of power. It cuts both ways.

I for one could really care less if Musk personally benefits or not from his efforts, as long as the overtaxed taxpayer benefits from his efforts.

All that said, we both know we are not changing each others mind. I genuinely appreciate your perspective and the discussion though. In my opinion, its good to hear various perspectives and I enjoy that.

 

[Henry Ford]

I for one could really care less if Musk personally benefits or not from his efforts, as long as the overtaxed taxpayer benefits from his efforts.

This is the gist of it. He's on your side so he can use the government for his own purposes. I have never uttered a sentence approaching this sentiment.

 

[Joe.....Montana]

DOGE, the purpose of it, and Elons role leading it was discussed starting in August. This was no suprise to the American voter by early November. They voted accordingly.

There are several positions high-ranking government officials that are not cabinet-level and thus dont need Senate approval. Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (Fauci) comes to mind, wow... he sure ended up with a lot of power. It cuts both ways.

I for one could really care less if Musk personally benefits or not from his efforts, as long as the overtaxed taxpayer benefits from his efforts.

All that said, we both know we are not changing each others mind. I genuinely appreciate your perspective and the discussion though. In my opinion, its good to hear various perspectives and I enjoy that.

I see both sides on this debate...but saying Musk's role was clear is not remotely true...it was clear he would head up some group to cut government waste...but rolling in and completely shuttering agencies (USAID), stopping payments to federally funded programs (there are some Headstart programs that have not received funding for 3 weeks) and potentially rewriting Treasury Department coding (with no government oversite) was not discussed once pre-election. Not saying I agree or disagree...but it was incredibly vague what he would actually be doing and his actions post election show they had a pretty clear plan.

 

[luebri]

This is the gist of it. He's on your side so he can use the government for his own purposes. I have never uttered a sentence approaching this sentiment.

I feel you are inferring I am saying something I did not... but all good. Its not germane to the topic, and I'm not worried about it

 

[Henry Ford]

I feel you are inferring I am saying something I did not... but all good. Its not germane to the topic, and I'm not worried about it

I haven't changed your mind??

 

[luebri]

Just received this email from Wisconsin DOT. As we knew already.... to the courts it goes.

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