Is there a truck culture gap for the Lightning vs the ICE F-150s?

[Easycamper]

I hear a lot of people saying they need 600 miles of range before they buy an EV, with this sentiment ironically typically coming from people who never leave their home town!

I hear this too. They’re up to 1000 km now. This is one of the moving goalposts. First they wanted 200 miles of range. Then we got that. Then they wanted 400 miles, okay we’re getting there too. Now it’s 600 miles….

I think a lot of pickup trucks are bought based on what people think they need or they want to project, rather than what they actually need.

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[swesson]

It's always hard to predict customer behaviors because (despite what some of us learned in business school) there is no such thing as 'economic man' who rationally optimizes his purchases.

Because if people did make rational decisions, many who own ICE vehicles would make their next purchase an EV. Why? Because the average American drives 36 miles a day (Source: https://aaafoundation.org/new-ameri...logy-and-results-from-july-2019-to-june-2020/ ) An EV can charge this amount in 9 hours with a wall outlet, 2 hours with a level 2 outlet, and 10 minutes on a DC fast charger. Those are the facts, but as we all know, facts don't change closely-held opinions.

There are those that talk about long-hauls and vacation trips and they are right, EV's aren't for those use cases. I have driven an EV for over 6 years and when I have a long family trip, I rent an ICE on Turo, but in the last two years, that's been once. Most families have two cars, so my advice is to go EV for one and keep the ICE for these very rare use cases. Again, I am not talking to the "ICE or die" folks because you've already decided what you are going to do and real use cases and facts won't convince you otherwise. Since this is a Lightning forum, I doubt many of you fall into this camp, however.

 

[FordLightningMan]

I think range anxiety is a real thing. But only because people are used to a longer range with gas cars and the ability to fill up quickly.

When we first got our Kia Soul EV with a 90 mile range, those first 2 weeks had a lot of panic for us as we were completely unused to the idea of an EV that could not go very far compared to our other vehicles, and that it took quite some time to charge compared to ICE.

We bought it knowing I would use it for my extremely short commute to work, which was 3 miles one way, and would save us a lot in gas money. (Plus we got a large cheque from Dieselgate and the VW we traded in.)

Those first two weeks were pretty unnerving. Especially, when we got the range down to only 7 miles remaining, and the car kept warning us to find a charger.

So yes, it is a real thing, it really is unnerving at first.

Now?

Well, the battery in that Kia is being warranty replaced - but just before I dropped it off for the service, it had a max range of about 23 miles on the highway. Did that cause me anxiety? No, because I am used to an EV after 5 years of driving one. I am used to the idea of going to the garage and having the range replenished overnight.

I think range anxiety is a real fear because when you move to an EV you have this concept of always having an "infinite" range (with gas fill ups) and suddenly move to a "limited range" with an EV. EV's offer a ton of benefits over ICE, but the drawback of a change in range. That is something you get over quickly, but it is a real and valid fear.

Very good point that the anxiety is real, but making a rash decision because of the anxiety isn't the answer. For someone moving into an ER from a SR due to anxiety, that is about a $20k decision. If like in your scenario it takes two weeks to learn to manage with limited range, then that is a heck of a lot of money to spend to make that quick realization.

I always share my advice to perspective first time EV buyers and my personal story is I am going backwards with less range in my second EV. I learned that more battery = wasted money based on my personal driving habits. I don't want people on a fixed budget being deterred from EV due to high battery costs at longer ranges. Now if someone is really driving 200 miles round-trip on their daily commute, then yes spring for more battery, but please make that costly expenditure a thoughtful one!

 

[Kev12345]

I hear this too. They’re up to 1000 km now. This is one of the moving goalposts. First they wanted 200 miles of range. Then we got that. Then they wanted 400 miles, okay we’re getting there too. Now it’s 600 miles….

I think a lot of pickup trucks are bought based on what people think they need or they want to project, rather than what they actually need.

in fairness it would be nice to have a lightning with 500-600 miles of unloaded range so that we could at least tow for 200 miles. this is the only real downside to the first gen lightning imo.

 

[Roy2001]

Not to dissent on a well meaning post, but I think range anxiety is largely unwarranted and incorrectly scares people away from EVs. I hear a lot of people saying they need 600 miles of range before they buy an EV, with this sentiment ironically typically coming from people who never leave their home town!

I think 500 miles range would be desired given capacity degradation, 15-90% recommended SoC, low temperature impact, freeway speed efficiency lose and AC/heating needs.

When there are more and more EV's on roads, people will change.

 

[Azbittel]

I have my EV and I follow two rules:

1) If people are interested and have questions, I will answer as many as possible. I assume getting the Lighting will lead to a new group of inquisitive people.

2) If someone is anti-EV, I don't argue. When I first got my Tesla people would try to say "got cha!," about some reason it was going to ruin my life and/or the world. I would make counter points as to why this simply wasn't true. You can tell almost immediately which people won't listen to a word of EV fact, for these people now I just walk away. Then I embarrass them at red lights, for subtle revenge.

Curious what EV you have living in Upstate NY? I've got a Mach E AWD Std range and I honestly don't recommend it to anyone with a decent commute if they don't also have an ICE vehicle in the home for the times when range is an issue, which is semi-regularly for us. The range in the winter is really quite terrible and its just the nature of the beast with EVs in cold weather unfortunately. Until 400mi+ range vehicles are the norm and you can get a couple hundred cold weather miles per charge, getting <120 miles in freezing temps is a scary reality sometimes. Which is a damn shame because it handles snow like it was purpose built for tearing down unplowed roads. I have a 100mi round trip work commute and if I couldn't charge for free at work and have a full battery at the end of every shift it would not work for me. I'd be nearly out of juice when I got home every day in the dead of winter which is too little margin for my likes.

 

[FordLightningMan]

Curious what EV you have living in Upstate NY? I've got a Mach E AWD Std range and I honestly don't recommend it to anyone with a decent commute if they don't also have an ICE vehicle in the home for the times when range is an issue, which is semi-regularly for us. The range in the winter is really quite terrible and its just the nature of the beast with EVs in cold weather unfortunately. Until 400mi+ range vehicles are the norm and you can get a couple hundred cold weather miles per charge, getting <120 miles in freezing temps is a scary reality sometimes. Which is a damn shame because it handles snow like it was purpose built for tearing down unplowed roads. I have a 100mi round trip work commute and if I couldn't charge for free at work and have a full battery at the end of every shift it would not work for me. I'd be nearly out of juice when I got home every day in the dead of winter which is too little margin for my likes.

I have a Tesla Model 3 Performance. I drive from the suburbs of Buffalo, NY into ski country in Ellicottville and back in the winter and never have issues. There's a supercharger in Salamanca, NY off of the 86 and I've felt reassurance because it is there if I need it. All the times going there and back (140 miles round trip, without any detours), I haven't needed to stop and charge once. I normally change my battery from 80% to 90% charge before the trip, but I've forgotten and still made the round trip.

...however, this is a use case where my SR Lightning likely won't be ideal. The non-Tesla charging options in the southern tier are not great, until one gets put in Ellicottville/Salamanca, that's a Tesla only trip. There are three Level 2 chargers in Ellicottville, one at the ski resort which has never been open when I passed and two off the beaten path so I've never checked their availability since it was never needed.

 

[Azbittel]

I hear this too. They’re up to 1000 km now. This is one of the moving goalposts. First they wanted 200 miles of range. Then we got that. Then they wanted 400 miles, okay we’re getting there too. Now it’s 600 miles….

I think a lot of pickup trucks are bought based on what people think they need or they want to project, rather than what they actually need.

A lot of people (me) live in severely cold climates part of the year and legitimately need double the range that others in warmer climates need. So sure, 300-400 miles is a reasonable ask for most people, but that's ~200 winter miles for me, barely sufficient for what most people expect. 500-600 miles gets me to a very reasonable 300 winter miles, I'd be ecstatic with that. My Mach E gets as little as 120 miles per charge in the dead of winter and that has gotten WAY too close for comfort on multiple occasions. Which is one reason I may not take delivery of my Lightning when it arrives end of summer. Same range but bigger battery means longer charge times for equally bad range anxiety. I wanted the ER Lightning but pay-walling it behind a 10k option package screwed me. In all honesty I probably will buy it knowing it wont hardly depreciate in a years time and hope Ram or Chevy puts their 300mi+ trucks within my price range and Ill trade it.... Ford really fucked over the average buyer by putting the ER so far out of reach.

 

[sotek2345]

A lot of people (me) live in severely cold climates part of the year and legitimately need double the range that others in warmer climates need. So sure, 300-400 miles is a reasonable ask for most people, but that's ~200 winter miles for me, barely sufficient for what most people expect. 500-600 miles gets me to a very reasonable 300 winter miles, I'd be ecstatic with that. My Mach E gets as little as 120 miles per charge in the dead of winter and that has gotten WAY too close for comfort on multiple occasions. Which is one reason I may not take delivery of my Lightning when it arrives end of summer. Same range but bigger battery means longer charge times for equally bad range anxiety. I wanted the ER Lightning but pay-walling it behind a 10k option package screwed me. In all honesty I probably will buy it knowing it wont hardly depreciate in a years time and hope Ram or Chevy puts their 300mi+ trucks within my price range and Ill trade it.... Ford really fucked over the average buyer by putting the ER so far out of reach.

Also in upstate NY (Albany area) and we have been very happy with our Mach-e GT, even with the winter range reduction. The lowest we got down to last year was ~160-170 miles which covered everything we needed except for 1 round trip that was ~210 miles (needed to stop for a fast charge and lunch, no big deal). I agree with you that the SR Mach-e's just aren't up to the task, but the ER versions do a signification better job.

My criteria for us was that it has to be able to do 2 daily commutes for my wife (~50 miles per day), starting from 90% (Ford recommended) and without a recharge in between. It had to be able to do both trips with all HVAC/heaters running and at normal highway speeds and have a comfortable margin with the battery (not driving down into single digits of % charge). The Mach-e with the ER battery handles that nicely. The SR does not.

I expect no issues with my ER Lightning.

 

[Azbittel]

Also in upstate NY (Albany area) and we have been very happy with our Mach-e GT, even with the winter range reduction. The lowest we got down to last year was ~160-170 miles which covered everything we needed except for 1 round trip that was ~210 miles (needed to stop for a fast charge and lunch, no big deal). I agree with you that the SR Mach-e's just aren't up to the task, but the ER versions do a signification better job.

My criteria for us was that it has to be able to do 2 daily commutes for my wife (~50 miles per day), starting from 90% (Ford recommended) and without a recharge in between. It had to be able to do both trips with all HVAC/heaters running and at normal highway speeds and have a comfortable margin with the battery (not driving down into single digits of % charge). The Mach-e with the ER battery handles that nicely. The SR does not.

I expect no issues with my ER Lightning.

The ER lightning would be perfect for me. But we already have a 60k vehicle in the driveway and can't stomach a 75k ER Lightning on top of it for me. I'll give the SR a chance and trade for better range EV Truck if Ford continues to hide the ER behind egregious packages. Historically RAM hasn't paywalled features nearly as bad as Ford or Chevy so hoping their EV Pickup entry is a bit less spendy when that drops...

 

[sotek2345]

The ER lightning would be perfect for me. But we already have a 60k vehicle in the driveway and can't stomach a 75k ER Lightning on top of it for me. I'll give the SR a chance and trade for better range EV Truck if Ford continues to hide the ER behind egregious packages. Historically RAM hasn't paywalled features nearly as bad as Ford or Chevy so hoping their EV Pickup entry is a bit less spendy when that drops...

Fair enough. Ford will likely have the Gen 2 Lightning and/or that other EV truck they mentioned out before the RAM to compare as well.

 

[FordLightningMan]

The ER lightning would be perfect for me. But we already have a 60k vehicle in the driveway and can't stomach a 75k ER Lightning on top of it for me. I'll give the SR a chance and trade for better range EV Truck if Ford continues to hide the ER behind egregious packages. Historically RAM hasn't paywalled features nearly as bad as Ford or Chevy so hoping their EV Pickup entry is a bit less spendy when that drops...

Not being able to stomach the cost of an EV is the key statement here. Barrier of entry to an EV is a real thing. This barrier is keeping many people from experiencing EVs and that leads to the culture gap noted in the thread title.

I think real change in being comfortable with EVs and masses warming up for adoption is around five years away. This is when there will be a meaningful EV used vehicle market, which will open the door to many new first time EV buyers. If specs keep improving due to EV competition amongst automakers, that will further push down prices of the early models. There are a lot of tech companies getting involved in the EV space, will EVs start to look more like mobile phones and TVs with depreciation after production is able to ramp? However, if EV production doesn't ramp and even five years from now there isn't battery supply to meet demand, then the EV adoption cultural gap won't be going anywhere.

 

[Roy2001]

I have a Tesla Model 3 Performance. I drive from the suburbs of Buffalo, NY into ski country in Ellicottville and back in the winter and never have issues. There's a supercharger in Salamanca, NY off of the 86 and I've felt reassurance because it is there if I need it. All the times going there and back (140 miles round trip, without any detours), I haven't needed to stop and charge once. I normally change my battery from 80% to 90% charge before the trip, but I've forgotten and still made the round trip.

...however, this is a use case where my SR Lightning likely won't be ideal. The non-Tesla charging options in the southern tier are not great, until one gets put in Ellicottville/Salamanca, that's a Tesla only trip. There are three Level 2 chargers in Ellicottville, one at the ski resort which has never been open when I passed and two off the beaten path so I've never checked their availability since it was never needed.

SR won't make 140 miles during winter. Even ER could be a little stretch if you use AC to heat up. That's why 2nd row heated seats is important, especially without heat pump in 1st gen Lightning.

And for 20F or below, even heat pump is not enough.

 

[Azbittel]

SR won't make 140 miles during winter. Even ER could be a little stretch if you use AC to heat up. That's why 2nd row heated seats is important, especially without heat pump in 1st gen Lightning.

And for 20F or below, even heat pump is not enough.

I've struggled to even get my Mach E to warm the cabin above 50F when it gets down to significantly below freezing. Like at 10F the heater is insufficient for warming the cabin at all. Literally shivering on my way to work, and I drive for 50 minutes so it isnt a time thing. Luckily that is like 10 or less days of the year, but it happened often enough to be worrying. Hoping the Lighting doesnt have that issue.

 

[Roy2001]

I've struggled to even get my Mach E to warm the cabin above 50F when it gets down to significantly below freezing. Like at 10F the heater is insufficient for warming the cabin at all. Literally shivering on my way to work, and I drive for 50 minutes so it isnt a time thing. Luckily that is like 10 or less days of the year, but it happened often enough to be worrying. Hoping the Lighting doesnt have that issue.

How about heated seats? Still don't feel comfortable for 10F?

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