New Simpler Approach for HIS wiring

[intensifi]

In my area PG&E tested a home backup generator connection last year. The test continues in 2024. I have signed up.

The way it works is a new meter is installed with a collar that acts as an intelligent transfer switch. The collar also has a connection for a floating neutral generator.

https://www.pge.com/en/outages-and-...rces/backup-power-transfer-meter-program.html

This is a great generator connection technique as it powers the entire house without any critical or non-critical loads sub-panel nonsense.

Note I believe PG&E is OEM’ing the design from another company. As such it should be available in other parts of the country. (https://www.generlink.com/generlink.html).

My concept is to connect the AC output power of the HIS (Delta Inverter) to the input connection of this collar.

The AC wires of the FCSP would be connected to a breaker adjacent to the meter in the main panel. The truck AC charges from this breaker when utility power is on. Pick the appropriate breaker size and have at it!

When utility power fails, the HIS inverter powers up via the darkstart battery. If the Lightning is connected to the FCSP, DC power flows into the HIS, HIS converts to AC and outputs to the connector on the collar. If the truck is not currently connected, nothing happens. Power to the sub panel is still off.

The Upsides are multiple:

1a) I will have the upper left dual pole breaker spaces back that are currently used for my generator interconnect via the interlock switch!
1b) I can retire my generator
2a) I don’t need to deal with the bonded neutral nonsense of the 240V bed outlet when being used for home backup
2b) I can leave the tonneau cover and tailgate closed during power outages (extreme weather being the likely cause of said outage)
3) The sub-panel receives AC power from either the utility or the Lightning/HIS on the main lugs
4) The HIS transfer switch is not needed (maybe - it might still be needed for CT connections to detect the utility outage)
5) The wiring is much simpler
6) The cost of installation due to the wiring is minimized
7) The PROPRIETARY nature of the FCSP/HIS is isolated to the main panel and meter
8) I can integrate whichever solar vendor I want between my meter and sub-panel (The utility CT would be used to instruct solar electronics NOT to backfeed the utility in an outage)
9) If the truck battery goes completely dead in a long outage, I could still connect my generator to the collar

Downsides:

1) No V2G rate arbitrage (This is not a big deal as I can still perform rate arbitrage via the Enphase components I will be installing)

My questions to the members of the forum:

1) Does this sound doable based on your firsthand knowledge of the HIS and/or reading the specs/instructions?
2) How is the darkstart battery charged? By the FCSP AC power from the main? Only when the HIS is activated?
3) Will this present any challenges commissioning the HIS?
4) Would this be invisible to the software in the HIS?
5) Would this be invisible to the software in the Lightning?

I would appreciate your thoughts on this approach. Along with any concerns.

Thanks in Advance!

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[Maquis]

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...-home-and-free-for-some-pg-e-customers.16910/

 

[intensifi]

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...-home-and-free-for-some-pg-e-customers.16910/

Thanks!

It’s nice to know it works with the 240V outlet in the bed and bonded neutral is not an issue!

I would rather have it work with the FCSP and HIS though.

 

[v2h8484]

The HIS/Delta MID (includes the ATS) is likely still necessary because it has the autotransformer required to create the neutral for 120V loads. I wonder if Ford/SunRun would support your proposed setup.

BTW, you can keep the tonneau cover and tailgate closed with Pro Power (see https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/thr...ailer-while-driving-it-works.6462/post-205429).

 

[intensifi]

The HIS/Delta MID (includes the ATS) is likely still necessary because it has the autotransformer required to create the neutral for 120V loads. I wonder if Ford/SunRun would support your proposed setup.

BTW, you can keep the tonneau cover and tailgate closed with Pro Power (see https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/thr...ailer-while-driving-it-works.6462/post-205429).

Thank you sir!

That pro power info is great!

I believe Ford and Sunrun would be eager to support such a configuration as sales have been dismal to date.

In theory this configuration is something any electrician could install with explicit instructions. The parts are not horrifically expensive and now labor can be cut way down. Sunrun could even offer a smaller configuration that skips the potential solar input.

Everyone should be happy - well not those that want to perform rate arbitrage directly with the Lightning.

 

[cwstnsko]

I’m not in an area that is piloting the meter collar generator interface, but I’ve considered something similar. I have Enphase IQ batteries, but with no backup yet. If I buy the system controller to allow me to do home backup, the controller has a generator input that could be used in a similar manner to interface the HIS to my Enphase system in a mostly integrated manner

 

[intensifi]

I’m not in an area that is piloting the meter collar generator interface, but I’ve considered something similar. I have Enphase IQ batteries, but with no backup yet. If I buy the system controller to allow me to do home backup, the controller has a generator input that could be used in a similar manner to interface the HIS to my Enphase system in a mostly integrated manner

That’s a negative ghost rider!

Enphase is emphatic about what they will consider a generator attached to the System Controller.

On our weekly calls, I always roast them for what they consider a generator! If it’s not spelled Generac they get confused.

 

[Runaway Tractor]

I like that configuration. Greatly simplifies and reduces cost. If that generlink was available here, I would totally do that rather than completely re-engineering my service entrance.

Being realistic, it's unlikely Ford and Sunrun would officially support this though. It's a "hack" for lack of a better word, using permanently installed equipment combined with something designed for temporary use, etc. They will ALWAYS want to sell a complete, proprietary, and permanently installed system. Unfortunately for the customers, their complete, proprietary, and permanently installed system is a total fluster cluck.

 

[Runaway Tractor]

Speaking proprietary fluster clucks... I think we're going to be stuck with that until an industry wide universal standard for V2H exists. That would allow any of the many solar / battery inverter systems to utilize EV batteries as part of their integrated storage system. For example, a standard RS485 protocol to communicate with the EVSE, enabling the 600vdc output to the inverter system.

This stuff isn't actually complicated. It's just a 600v battery. It's either on or off. But right now, this concept is so new, Ford has managed to make the most complicated and dysfunctional on/off switch ever.

 

[intensifi]

I like that configuration. Greatly simplifies and reduces cost. If that generlink was available here, I would totally do that rather than completely re-engineering my service entrance.

Being realistic, it's unlikely Ford and Sunrun would officially support this though. It's a "hack" for lack of a better word, using permanently installed equipment combined with something designed for temporary use, etc. They will ALWAYS want to sell a complete, proprietary, and permanently installed system. Unfortunately for the customers, their complete, proprietary, and permanently installed system is a total fluster cluck.

How would they know if I buy the parts and install it myself?

Also the need for backup is temporary given an outage. That’s what the HIS is for. That’s what the collar is for.

 

[Runaway Tractor]

How would they know if I buy the parts and install it myself?

Also the need for backup is temporary given an outage. That’s what the HIS is for. That’s what the collar is for.

That's the difference between "officially support it" and "you can make it work"

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