ProPower 9.6kW - How many separate 120v / 20amp circuits can i get?

[chl]

I can only attest to what true TESTS have shown/proven...whether you like it or not is up to you. Give it a try yourself.

Link to these tests?

There are a couple sets of 120V 20A outlets in the bed so IF you are saying using more than one of them you can get 30A that's believable.

But if you are saying ONE outlet (labeled 120V 20A 2.4kW MAX on the cover) could output 30A and a test proves that, I'd be shocked (pun intended).

It would allow you to overload a 15A or 20A cord and plug with 30A which could result in a melted cord wire/plug since they are not rated or designed for 30A, and that would be a code violation as well - yes the NEC has codes for automobile outlets:

NEC 625.60:
. Specifically addresses AC receptacle outlets used for EV power export (where the vehicle can provide power back to the grid or building). It outlines requirements for the receptacle's type, rating, overcurrent protection, and GFCI protection.

So I'm pretty sure Ford would not intentionally violate the NEC - think of the liability!

Sponsored

 

[TaxmanHog]

TRUCK

 

[123XYZ]

Link to these tests?

There are a couple sets of 120V 20A outlets in the bed so IF you are saying using more than one of them you can get 30A that's believable.

But if you are saying ONE outlet (labeled 120V 20A 2.4kW MAX on the cover) could output 30A and a test proves that, I'd be shocked (pun intended).

It would allow you to overload a 15A or 20A cord and plug with 30A which could result in a melted cord wire/plug since they are not rated or designed for 30A, and that would be a code violation as well - yes the NEC has codes for automobile outlets:

NEC 625.60:
. Specifically addresses AC receptacle outlets used for EV power export (where the vehicle can provide power back to the grid or building). It outlines requirements for the receptacle's type, rating, overcurrent protection, and GFCI protection.

So I'm pretty sure Ford would not intentionally violate the NEC - think of the liability!

I'm not an electrician.

But it's my understanding that the purpose of breakers and receptacles that only fit plugs for 15A or 20A loads is to protect building wiring (truck wiring, in this case), not the cords or appliances that get plugged into the receptacles.

No non-defective product relies on a breaker to protect it from drawing more current than it can handle. As long as it is receiving the correct voltage, the appliance controls the current to its intended amount. Similarly, no non-defective product has a cord that won't handle all the current it draws when connected to a circuit carrying the correct voltage.

If the wiring from the inverter to the receptacle can handle 30A and the receptacle can handle 30A a 30A breaker is protecting everything that it is required to protect and if you plug a single appliance into it with a NEMA 5-20P plug that will fit into one of the truck bed's NEMA 5-20R receptacle, it should draw no more than 20A.

Now, if the concern is what happens if you use a splitter to plug in more than one device with a NEMA 5-20P or NEMA 5-15P plug, the answer is that it's your responsibility to ensure that your splitter or extension cord can handle the current you're drawing. There's a label on extension cords that states the maximum current it's rated for. Not the huge label. That warns you of nothing that is isn't true of oll cords or even all uses of electricity (don't get in the tub with it, lightning can be dangerous, etc.). The useful information is on a tiny label. If you ignore it, your extension cord or splitter may melt or worse.

Does that mean everytjing is hunky dory to plug a splitter of some sort that can handle 30A into one of the NEMA 5-20R 120v receptacles in the bed and plug 2 15A loads into it? Almost certainly not. With probably very few exceptions other than very transitory loads, I believe a NEMA 5-20P plugged into a NEMA 5-20R isn't allowed to draw more than 20A and a NEMA 5-15P plugged into a NEMA 5-20R isn't allowed for to draw more than 15A. The label on an extension cord (or power strip) with a 5-15 or 5-20 plug should tell you this. (For example, my 10ga extension cords with 5-15 plugs & receptacles tell me I shouldn't use them for more than 15A.) I don't know if plug-type splitters have such a label. If it was all 10ga wire in the splitter, my guess is that any unsafe level of overheating would probably be unlikely for non-continuous loads. But you shouldn't test that because there's a better alternative.

The code-compliant way to do it would be with a NEMA 14-30P to NEMA 5-20R splitter that feeds power from each leg of the 30A 240V circuit to two more more 5-20R or 5-15R receptacles. If you draw more than 30A on either leg, even briefly, the truck should cut off the power. In theory, absent motor loads, you should avoid this if you only have 2 5-15R receptacles on each leg as nothing that plugs into them should ever draw more than 15A on a non-transitory time-scale.

 

[chl]

I'm not an electrician.

But it's my understanding that the purpose of breakers and receptacles that only fit plugs for 15A or 20A loads is to protect building wiring (truck wiring, in this case), not the cords or appliances that get plugged into the receptacles.

No non-defective product relies on a breaker to protect it from drawing more current than it can handle. As long as it is receiving the correct voltage, the appliance controls the current to its intended amount. Similarly, no non-defective product has a cord that won't handle all the current it draws when connected to a circuit carrying the correct voltage.

If the wiring from the inverter to the receptacle can handle 30A and the receptacle can handle 30A a 30A breaker is protecting everything that it is required to protect and if you plug a single appliance into it with a NEMA 5-20P plug that will fit into one of the truck bed's NEMA 5-20R receptacle, it should draw no more than 20A.

Now, if the concern is what happens if you use a splitter to plug in more than one device with a NEMA 5-20P or NEMA 5-15P plug, the answer is that it's your responsibility to ensure that your splitter or extension cord can handle the current you're drawing. There's a label on extension cords that states the maximum current it's rated for. Not the huge label. That warns you of nothing that is isn't true of oll cords or even all uses of electricity (don't get in the tub with it, lightning can be dangerous, etc.). The useful information is on a tiny label. If you ignore it, your extension cord or splitter may melt or worse.

Does that mean everytjing is hunky dory to plug a splitter of some sort that can handle 30A into one of the NEMA 5-20R 120v receptacles in the bed and plug 2 15A loads into it? Almost certainly not. With probably very few exceptions other than very transitory loads, I believe a NEMA 5-20P plugged into a NEMA 5-20R isn't allowed to draw more than 20A and a NEMA 5-15P plugged into a NEMA 5-20R isn't allowed for to draw more than 15A. The label on an extension cord (or power strip) with a 5-15 or 5-20 plug should tell you this. (For example, my 10ga extension cords with 5-15 plugs & receptacles tell me I shouldn't use them for more than 15A.) I don't know if plug-type splitters have such a label. If it was all 10ga wire in the splitter, my guess is that any unsafe level of overheating would probably be unlikely for non-continuous loads. But you shouldn't test that because there's a better alternative.

The code-compliant way to do it would be with a NEMA 14-30P to NEMA 5-20R splitter that feeds power from each leg of the 30A 240V circuit to two more more 5-20R or 5-15R receptacles. If you draw more than 30A on either leg, even briefly, the truck should cut off the power. In theory, absent motor loads, you should avoid this if you only have 2 5-15R receptacles on each leg as nothing that plugs into them should ever draw more than 15A on a non-transitory time-scale.

Really the issue I was responding to, that the 20A receptacles can provide 30A, should be moot because Ford clearly labels the 20A receptacles on the receptacle covers as "120V 20A 2.4kW MAX" and the manual says not to exceed the rating on the cover.

So Ford clearly did not intend that the 20A receptacles provide 30A. And I do not believe they would.

My point about liability was if Ford put a 20A rated receptacle on a 30A circuit and somebody gets hurt as a result because the receptacle or plugged in powerstirp, for example, fails when it draws 30A, that's on Ford.

Yes, breakers and receptacles protect the house or truck circuit from overloading, but they also protect the things plugged in should some fault occur.

The type of receptacle prevents plugging something in to the wrong circuit, that is, it ensures the corded device is safe to use with that receptacle. If it will plug into it, it indicates that the device is safe to use with that receptacle and the circuit is adequate to handle the device.

If you could plug a 120V device into a 240V receptacle bad things might happen.

Funny story about that...we hired electricians to wire up a backyard shed, digging a trench from our house panel to a sub-panel in the shed. When they were done, we were going to install drywall and I got ready to install the screws on the first piece and plugged in my 120V drill - ZAP! It burned up in my thankfully gloved hand. WTF, I thought. It was an old drill so at first I thought maybe it just died. But when I checked the outlet, 240V across the hot and neutral slots! I checked the panel and confirmed the electrician had wired a hot to the neutral bus in the panel. OMG!

Another example, the oversized breaker: suppose a 20A rated power strip with 20A rated wire is overloaded because of the number of devices plugged in, but because it's plugged into a 20A receptacle on a 30A circuit breaker (an oversized breaker), it draws over the rated 20A and the wiring melts and starts a fire. The 30A breaker did not protect the power strip and its wiring because the breaker was too large to open at the max 20A rating of the power strip. So a properly sized breaker would protect the plugged in powerstrip should the things plugged in represent an overload.

Equipment manufacturers, like the ones that make the devices that plug in, use or make the cords and plugs for those things in the standard form that matches the amount of current and voltage the devices require, as you noted.

So you can't plug in a 20A window air conditioner into a 15A receptacle because a 20A plug will not go into a 15A receptacle, for example. And you can't plug a 120V drill into a 240V receptacle (unless a 120V one was miswired as happened to me).

Using adapters or power strips to plug in multiple devices can result in circuit overloading circuits. House breakers/fuses may not protect the circuit, they may be old and/or faulty, and a wire or insulation fire could result.

So, besides the clear labeling to the contrary, the problem with saying the 20A receptacle on the Lightning can provide 30A is that implies a 30A circuit breaker, and a 20A receptacle is not safe at over the 20A maximum amperage. If the breaker size is 30A, the receptacle would fail when the 20A rating is exceeded.

If someone reads on a forum that one can pull 30A on that 20A receptacle and Ford actually let that happen, when the 20A receptacle, adapter or power strip fails, who is responsible? Ford would be responsible. (Yes the cover and manual say don't exceed 120V 20A 2.4kW but a breaker should not be oversized such that it would not protect the circuit if the specified max is exceeded.)

Bottom line is a 20A receptacle should be protected by a properly sized 20A breaker to protect the wiring, from circuit breaker to device, from overheating possibly resulting in a fire. But overloading a receptacle is bad practice since breakers/fuses sometimes fail and fires result.

 

[ScottC]

I did a test running 3x Godox 600 lighting instruments and an old 1x1 light panel I had around.
All in all generated somewhere around 2000watts thru the 30amp/240 using a pigtail.

this worked fine and I gave me the the confidence that it’ll do the trick. Of course elements matter and this was NorCal around 58 degrees w a tiny mist. Mileage will vary in Las Vegas.

Kept the car on and ran everything at 100% for an hour and mileage range dropped 3miles over that time.

Sponsored