Reflections on the State of DCFC Charging in the US

[PreservedSwine]

You must have gotten really good gas milage to make that statement (or not using an reasonably equivalent pickup). At the time I traded in my 4x4 Dodge Ram 2500, I was spending about 38 cents per mile for gas. To have the SuperCharger cost that much per mile would be 90 - 95 cents per KWH. That's higher than I have EVER seen by quite a bit (without a Tesla subscription). With a Tesla subscription, a high price is just over half that. At the lowest subscription price, less than a third if that.

Not really that great. Our mid size suv get 27 mpg at 80 mph.
not a comparable vehicle, since I needed a truck, not another suv when I bought the lighting. It's not a close comparison using supercharger prices over 50 cents/kWhr. Gas is cheaper in my suv than my aerodynamic brick using electrons
Even my f250 diesel is cheaper than the lighting on road trips paying that premium for electrons, though at least they're in the same zip-code.

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[K6CCC]

Not really that great. Our mid size suv get 27 mpg at 80 mph.

As I said, NOT an equivalent vehicle. Of course a mid size SUV is going to get FAR better gas milage than a full size pickup. Apples to Oranges comparison.

 

[PreservedSwine]

As I said, NOT an equivalent vehicle. Of course a mid size SUV is going to get FAR better gas milage than a full size pickup. Apples to Oranges comparison.

ummm yeah. That's why I drive the gasoline suv (On interstate road trips over 300 miles)
The lighting is the only electric vehicle I own, so...kinda limits the ev options.

Maybe Im misunderstanding? Wasn't trying to make an apples to apples comparison and certainly didn't intend leave that impression. Just stating I'd rather go to the dentist than make that trip in the lighting. Taking the suv is a no-brainer. The interstate efficiency and range in the SR doesn't fit my life. That doesn't mean it may not fit yours. More power to you if it does.
However, I didn't buy it for that. For the radius I use it, it's the perfect vehicle. I'll lever get tired of it. Friends that may hold a negative ev bias change their opinion as soon as I let them drive it, every single one. We all know the driving experience is second to almost none.

 

[hturnerfamily]

many of us don't have any 'gas' vehicle to 'travel' with, and, well, that's the point - WE DON'T WANT ONE< EITHER.

as long as you continue to try to 'compare' gas vs EV, and ONLY when traveling, you'll never use an ev just like any other 'travel' vehicle... you'll always revert to 'comparing' your options.
Yes, as long as you own a gas vehicle, use it. But, the idea that those who 'only' have an ev are somehow 'paying too much to travel', is, well, preposterous. We only pay what we pay. And, unlike your 'gas' travel vehicle, we will NEVER need an oil change, or a 'smog test'.

No ev owner is 'always' traveling away from home - 99% of miles are around where we live.

 

[CavRider]

Well, I mean, even THIS GUY has use for a fossil fuel burner.

 

[FloridaMan655321]

For those who have never seen it, this is the 120 stall Supercharger at Barstow (CA):

Awesome. Apparently they're building a 200 stall superchargers at Yeehaw Junction FL. It's going to be very nice as these because somewhat of the norm like how there are mega truck stops across the major Interstates.

 

[hturnerfamily]

extrapolating on the discussion of 'reflections on the state of charging...' ...

was just complaining the other day, or wondering why our town has a Tesla dealership, and yet the town has NOT A SINGLE fast charging option...
well, until now: 12 stall Supercharger just installed - 350kw OPEN TO PARTNER EVs

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

many of us don't have any 'gas' vehicle to 'travel' with, and, well, that's the point - WE DON'T WANT ONE< EITHER.

as long as you continue to try to 'compare' gas vs EV, and ONLY when traveling, you'll never use an ev just like any other 'travel' vehicle... you'll always revert to 'comparing' your options.
Yes, as long as you own a gas vehicle, use it. But, the idea that those who 'only' have an ev are somehow 'paying too much to travel', is, well, preposterous. We only pay what we pay. And, unlike your 'gas' travel vehicle, we will NEVER need an oil change, or a 'smog test'.

No ev owner is 'always' traveling away from home - 99% of miles are around where we live.

If someone isolates a single expense, it’s easy to pretend that an ICE is more expensive.

 

[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

interesting to read more charging options in more places:
I have to think ten years from now the combination of longer range (better batteries) and more charging options will be night-and-day compared to a few years ago.

 

[gbuydos]

In the past oversaw the development and construction of a 24 stall Tesla station. Ended up being located on the roof of a parking structure. Structure owner did not want to give up good spaces to EV drivers (deemed transient) as the first 90 mins were free. Tesla themselves did not care about roof location (lease price was cheaper). As for facilities, bathrooms, eating, and coffee were all withing a 5 minute walk. That's all they care about. We monitored the station for about a year. Majority of Tesla drivers stayed in their vehicles and did not get snacks, food, etc. Tesla ended up paying $10,000-$12,000 per month in electric bills. I can assure you that cost of charging will continue to rise more than it is now.

 

[jjupi91897]

Having just completed my 14th EV road trip of more than 1500 miles (that was preceded by just a couple weeks of another trip totaling 3400 miles), I have a couple of thoughts about the state of DCFC charging in the U.S.

First, in most of the country, there is no valid excuse for NOT using an EV for long distance travel. Sure, there are some pretty wide EV charging deserts in the Centennial states, and I wish more of the western national parks had fast charging like the south rim of the Grand Canyon. But I crossed through Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia (not exactly EV friendly states) entirely on secondary roads - most of them two-lane rural roads - without any difficulty whatsoever and with a minimum of route planning. And I am 70 years old and drive an SR Pro.

As a fierce critic of Electrify America this is hard to admit, but I think they might be getting better. I have nearly 200 EA billed charging sessions - and many dozens of failed ones - but lately the failures (including throttled chargers) have become less frequent. Just this week I was at an EA station in Erick (OK) and when I grabbed the plug I noticed both it and the cable were new (attached to an OLD dispenser). Maybe this is a small sign that EA is finally making an effort to properly maintain its equipment.

On my most recent trip (this week), I was surprised by how little congestion there was at the charging stations. I remember in the summer of 2023 it was a much different story. I’m not sure it’s any one factor, but several. There are simply more chargers in the field. Both Tesla and Rivian are opening their networks to other brands, which is taking some pressure off EA. In fact, at a shopping center in Albuquerque, I saw Tesla, Rivian, and EA chargers within 500 feet of each other in the same parking lot (I used the Tesla because they were - by far - the cheapest). I also think that the growing number of hotels/motels that have L2 charging (both free and paid) reduces the dependence on DCFC for long distance travel. I want to offer kudos to a Hyatt property in Mobile (AL) for its excellent array of L2 chargers that were free to guests (see photo).

On the less-good-news front is the cost of DCFC charging. Many of the new players - GM Energy, Rivian, IONNA, etc. are charging ridiculous rates for electrons, and that’s AFTER taking NEVI funds to create their sites. They also don’t offer membership programs. Basically Tesla offers the best network - many good locations, high reliability, reasonable rates, and a membership program that is a fair value.

Finally, all too often EV charging sites lack amenities that we expect at any gas station - canopy protection from the weather, windshield washing sticks, trash cans, restrooms, convenience stores, and so forth. Even brand new locations by the major players are, more often than not, just dispensers stuck in a parking lot. I think there is a missed business opportunity here.

Bottom Line: EV fast charging in America is definitely getting better and there is little excuse for hand-wringing when taking your Lightning outside the city limits. But the quality and cost of that experience need to improve.

Today, EA has upgraded to faster chargers, mostly 350 KW.

 

[On the Road with Ralph]

Today, EA has upgraded to faster chargers, mostly 350 KW.

As an EA Pass+ member with just short of 200 billed charging sessions spread over 13 states, I am intimately familiar with the company's various generations of chargers (I also have various internal docs that I can't disclose because I signed an NDA). There are still a large number of ABB Terra HP 350 (and older BTC) chargers, originally adopted in 2018, installed at sites across the country. These chargers (really, dispensers - they are the ones with the "hole" at the top) have proven to be maintenance headaches and tend to thermally throttle in the summer. They are gradually being supplanted by the more recently deployed Gen4 chargers - BTCP HPCD6 - that claim a rating of 350 kW. These tend to be more reliable (they are the dispensers with the slanted design at the top). EA also has a couple sites testing some gear that has proven reliable in Europe.

Whether new chargers - both replacements at existing locations and new sites - eventually improve EA's overall reliability and user experience is yet to be certain. But based on my experience and others whose judgment I trust, EA does appear to be slowly climbing out of the hole it dug for itself. The chief problem now is the number of dispensers at any given site. Most EA stations are four units or less; it is not uncommon for Tesla have 10x or more stalls at their nearby locations. Increasing the number of dispensers at an existing site is a provisioning nightmare akin to the original deployment. But more charging slots per site is critical to reducing per unit utilization and improving the perception of reliability. Until EA makes at least 12 dispensers the minimum install, it will continue to be seen as an inferior charging network when compared to Tesla.

 

[Mcgyverrod]

my '22 PRO SR takes me anywhere, anytime I want to go... recently over 300 miles to the beach, WITH our camper in tow, and POWERING the camper with ProPower for roof air conditioning, ALL the way there.... and back....

and, AGREED, the 'state' of DC Fast Charging LOCATIONS, Distances between locations, AND newer designs, as well as newer BRANDS, along with capabilities for NACS and other 'specific' manufacturers, like RIVIAN, have created a path to success... no matter WHERE you wish to drive.

Admittedly, I steer away from EA and CP and EVgo, since my former years were basically 'stuck' with them as the only options. Now, though, even with Tesla and Rivian, we have GM Ultiums(350kw) at Pilot/FlyingJ locations, and some with AWNINGS, as well as upgraded Chargepoint MERCEDES(200+kwh) and other 'branded' CP units that are MUCH FASTER than the typical 50kw single, or 125kw 'shared', locations... even some RaceTrac fuel stations now have COVERED 350kw CCS/NACS units, using the 'older' Shell ReCharge software/screens, but work well once activated.

Pricing: yes, but I've seen Tesla locations get as low as .27 per kwh during 'overnight' hours, if that fits your traveling schedule - when towing a powered Camper, it works just fine: snack, bathroom, and even napping, are included : )

Locations: yes, it's unfortunate that the locations for many DC Fast Chargers are placements where, well, there could certainly have been more consideration for driver NEEDS: while every gas/fuel station has a bathroom option, EV drivers apparently haven't risen to that importance. We are relegated sometimes to far off parking lot corners, desolate or vacant strip mall outer-lying spaces, or locations with some amenities, but which 'close' far too early.


ALL IN ALL, though, if you want to travel, you can. You may have to plan ahead, and be ready for the 'unmanned' locations, but... yes, it certainly can be done, and, yes, it's certainly LIGHT YEARS ahead of the former years in our LEAF where traveling with a 70 mile range was a possibility, but not necessarily for the faint-of-heart. We learned early, and now, with 240miles range, take nothing for granted.

I too have used several different charge sites. EA was my favorite as I got fast-charging but they also have High-rate costs- ($.68/Kwh at Selma, CA in June). I also like Tesla but I have found that I cannot charge at many of their sites. Their rates are a bit lower as I found Tesla at $.47/Kwh in Selma. I just wish Tesla would open more of their charging sites to we F-150 lightning owners.

 

[Firn]

I could only dream about gas prices that low. This is southern California and CostCo is around $4.00 and high priced stations are well over $5.00 per gallon (for the cheapest octane gas). My Dodge was averaging 10.8 mpg.

By comparison in the just under four months that I have had the Lightning, out of 93 charge sessions, 38 (41%) were at home at $0.24 per KWH, 41 (44%) were free. I have driven 6,567 miles and charged 2,872 KWH for a cost of $564.42 or an average of $0.197 per KWH. For the Dodge I was buying about $500 of gas per month. And I'm driving quite a bit more than I was in the Dodge.

You are comparing apples to bricks there though.

Pretty reasonable to expect an ICE F150 to get 18mpg at 70mph. With gas prices here that's about $0.18 per mile, at $5 a gallon that's around $0.27 per mile.

My recent EA experiance was $0.56 per kwh, at 1.9m/kwh in my lightning that's $0.29 per mile. A membership drives that down to $0.43/kwh for me, but that's still $0.22/mile in the lightning.

11 mpg isnt comparing similar vehicles.

 

[On the Road with Ralph]

You are comparing apples to bricks there though.

Pretty reasonable to expect an ICE F150 to get 18mpg at 70mph. With gas prices here that's about $0.18 per mile, at $5 a gallon that's around $0.27 per mile.

My recent EA experiance was $0.56 per kwh, at 1.9m/kwh in my lightning that's $0.29 per mile. A membership drives that down to $0.43/kwh for me, but that's still $0.22/mile in the lightning.

11 mpg isnt comparing similar vehicles.

Everybody's math & metrics are a bit different.

Last fall I kept very careful records of my costs on a 1568 mile trip from California to Arkansas. Most of it was on I-40 at highway speeds. I averaged right at 2.0 miles/kW. My total cost for charging - including an allowance for the restoration of the 100% charge at the destination - was $197.10 or 12.6¢/mile. I benefitted from a free DCFC charging stop in OKC, as well as using membership pricing at both EA (cheapest was 42¢/kW) and Tesla (cheapest was 23¢/kW) stations.

I calculated at the time that the gasoline cost for an ICE F-150 would have been around $242.

I do A LOT of long distance travel in my SR Pro, so my "fuel" savings are probably not as great as someone who does most of their charging at home. That said, when at my home in the Ozark Mountains, I benefit from a special EV charging rate of 5.6¢/kW for the first 400 kWh. That tends to really bring down my annual cost to power the Lightning.

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