Toyota claims solid-state EV battery tech breakthrough could offer +900 miles driving range

[Jim Lewis]

Promises, promises, promises .... Where's the beef?!

Toyota claims solid-state EV battery tech breakthrough (electrek.co)

Ten to eighty percent in under 20 minutes?!

Its “further evolution” includes a high-performance battery that combines a bipolar structure with a high nickel cathode to increase cruising range by 10%, reduce costs by 20%, and offer quick charging (10% to 80%) in 20 minutes or less.

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[EdRudy]

You have to start somewhere. I would love to see a 900 mile plus range EV.

 

[Zprime29]

I'll believe it when I see it. Getting tired of reading all the headlines on solid state batteries. I'm done, wake me when there's more than 1000 on the road.

 

[Amps]

Toyota claims solid-state EV battery tech breakthrough (electrek.co)

Toyota...only five more years from five more years from five more years after cold fusion vehicles...

I love how they're benchmarking it with BiZzyForks

 

[Ventorum94]

I'll believe it when I see it. Getting tired of reading all the headlines on solid state batteries. I'm done, wake me when there's more than 1000 on the road.

Ditto, for 400+ mile range on Silverado EV. The physics of pushing a brick through the air at 70mph requires 500 Wh/mile (or more). So, are they going to have 200kWh battery packs and cost less than $100k? (to say nothing of the weight of such a huge battery, and the glacial pace of charging it…) I’ll believe it when I see it.

 

[jdmackes]

Solid state batteries will be great when they come, but I think it's at least 5-10 years out before they're mass market

 

[chl]

I'll believe it when I see it. Getting tired of reading all the headlines on solid state batteries. I'm done, wake me when there's more than 1000 on the road.

Hope I live long enough to see it ccome to be.

BTW, Aptera will have a 1,000 mile rage in one of their models some time they get their production started with a 400 mile range model, solar charged for up to 40 miles per day....but of course it is not a pickup, just a 2-seater, three-wheeled, aerodynamically designed vehicle.

 

[Zprime29]

Hope I live long enough to see it ccome to be.

Which comes first? Solid state batteries or fusion power plants?

 

[Maquis]

Which comes first? Solid state batteries or fusion power plants?

I’m betting on SSB….commercially-viable cold fusion has been 5 years away for 25 years.

 

[VTbuckeye]

And if they do come up with a viable solid state battery good for 900 miles per charge, why wouldn't they put it into 2 or 3 separate vehicles getting 300 to 450 per charge. If the motors and aerodynamic top out at 75mph requiring 250W per mile (4miles per kWh) then a 900 mile range vehicle would require 225kWh useable battery capacity. If the efficiency was around 333W per mile (3 miles per kWh) it would require 300kWh of useable battery.

A 70 percent change in battery state of charge 10 to 80 in 20 minutes would require 475kW charging for a 225kWh battery or 630kW charging for a 300kWh battery. This would likely require a big jump in pack voltage or a huge increase in current. 475kW charging at 400V would be almost 1200amp and 630kW charging would require almost 1600amp (feel free to check my math). At 800V the current would be cut in half. Tesla megawatt chargers (for the semi) would be able to supply the power, but no other chargers will be able to provide that amount of power.

But back to the beginning why power one car for 900 miles when you can power three for 300. Charging infrastructure is what matters the most assuming you can charge quickly and there are abundant charging locations.

 

[chl]

And if they do come up with a viable solid state battery good for 900 miles per charge, why wouldn't they put it into 2 or 3 separate vehicles getting 300 to 450 per charge. If the motors and aerodynamic top out at 75mph requiring 250W per mile (4miles per kWh) then a 900 mile range vehicle would require 225kWh useable battery capacity. If the efficiency was around 333W per mile (3 miles per kWh) it would require 300kWh of useable battery.

A 70 percent change in battery state of charge 10 to 80 in 20 minutes would require 475kW charging for a 225kWh battery or 630kW charging for a 300kWh battery. This would likely require a big jump in pack voltage or a huge increase in current. 475kW charging at 400V would be almost 1200amp and 630kW charging would require almost 1600amp (feel free to check my math). At 800V the current would be cut in half. Tesla megawatt chargers (for the semi) would be able to supply the power, but no other chargers will be able to provide that amount of power.

But back to the beginning why power one car for 900 miles when you can power three for 300. Charging infrastructure is what matters the most assuming you can charge quickly and there are abundant charging locations.

Well Tesla has the 1 megawatt V4 charger...and they say the (long awaited) Cybertruck will be able to use it.
https://www.greencarreports.com/new...ms-megawatt-charging-tech-for-cybertruck-semi

As for FUSION power plants - we already have one, it is called the SUN! More than enough solar hits earth everyday to power humanity for a long long time.

" 173,000 terawatts of solar energy strikes the Earth continuously"
https://sos.noaa.gov/catalog/live-programs/energy-on-a-sphere/

173 trillion watts x 24 hours x 60 minutes x 60 seconds = a s-load of energy (joules)!!!

Bring on the solar infrastructure and storage facilities!

 

[ivan256]

And if they do come up with a viable solid state battery good for 900 miles per charge, why wouldn't they put it into 2 or 3 separate vehicles getting 300 to 450 per charge. If the motors and aerodynamic top out at 75mph requiring 250W per mile (4miles per kWh) then a 900 mile range vehicle would require 225kWh useable battery capacity. If the efficiency was around 333W per mile (3 miles per kWh) it would require 300kWh of useable battery.

A 70 percent change in battery state of charge 10 to 80 in 20 minutes would require 475kW charging for a 225kWh battery or 630kW charging for a 300kWh battery. This would likely require a big jump in pack voltage or a huge increase in current. 475kW charging at 400V would be almost 1200amp and 630kW charging would require almost 1600amp (feel free to check my math). At 800V the current would be cut in half. Tesla megawatt chargers (for the semi) would be able to supply the power, but no other chargers will be able to provide that amount of power.

But back to the beginning why power one car for 900 miles when you can power three for 300. Charging infrastructure is what matters the most assuming you can charge quickly and there are abundant charging locations.

Why power one car for 900 miles when you can power 20 cars for 45 miles, and none of the drivers burn any gas on 99% of their trips or have to worry about range ever at all?

Toyota already makes the perfect car. Now they need to make the one that will get the zealots off their backs and protect them from the regulators.

 

[VTbuckeye]

Why power one car for 900 miles when you can power 20 cars for 45 miles, and none of the drivers burn any gas on 99% of their trips or have to worry about range ever at all?

Toyota already makes the perfect car. Now they need to make the one that will get the zealots off their backs and protect them from the regulators.

I have a phev in addition to our BEVs. For long trips it is our vehicle of choice, but there are certainly issues with the dual fuel drivetrain. At the end of the winter the phev has engine oil with 8%fuel dilution. Cold, short cycles are awful for engines and once it is cold enough the car will start regardless of battery state of charge. Our old Chevy volt got the recommended oil change every two years averaging more than 250 miles per gallon (the gauge stopped tracking at 250mpg). At least it would wait until 14F to start when cold. The Volvo might start at 48 degrees. The oil looked almost like a chocolate milkshake when changed. Fuel and condensation getting washed into the oil because the engine will run, but not long enough or often enough to burn off contamination.
PHEV should have a button that you can push the prevents the ice from starting other than at wide open throttle.
People will tell you it's a phev, not an EV, don't expect it to act like an EV. If you wanted an EV, you should have purchased an EV. (This is from my time as a Volt owner and a few minutes perusing rav4 prime forum). Both of those have better EV logic than our Volvo phev with its 6ish kWh (after 7 years) useable battery.

Tldr: An EV when you want it. An ICE when you need it. That's not exactly how these things work in real life and the compromises are not always best for ICE longevity.

 

[ivan256]

Tldr: An EV when you want it. An ICE when you need it. That's not exactly how these things work in real life and the compromises are not always best for ICE longevity.

Maybe not the best for engine longevity. But quite clearly the most cost, time, and resource effective choice for reducing personal-transportation greenhouse gas emissions in the short and medium (15-20 years) term. Probably also for other environmental effects as well.

 

[Jhalkias]

Spy photo of Toyota technology . . .

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