Do I need to run new 400 amp service in my house for the Lightning + everything else?

[EVBill]

The diagram is very crewed but I don't think you can justify the statement that the intent of the diagram doesn't meet the electrical code. It's very likely that the meter is already rated for 200 amps but of course you would have to do your homework to be sure. And as far as the feeders from the meter go, you are going to have to replace those anyway to get the transfer switch/EVSE in there.

Most likely if your current panel is limited to 100A, the service wire from the meter to the panel and the wire from the transformer to the meter are both only sized for 100A. If this is the case, it is most likely better to just add a second 100A meter that feeds a new panel with 100A breaker that feeds the vehicle charger. This would be better than ripping into the current service for the house and allows for using a meter that charges one rate during the day and a lower one at night when it is best to charge the vehicle. I went to a meter for my 200A service that charges based on time of day and the savings for charging the car at night were more than offset by paying higher rates during the day on all other electricity uses , so I would have been better off putting in a second meter and panel.

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[Nick Gerteis]

Yes the grid can handle one or two electric vehicles per street, but that is a far cry from an electric vehicle in every household, let alone replacing all vehicles with electric vehicles. Several cities in the USA are already suffering from brown outs, and this will only get worse as more people switch to electric vehicles. And then there were the massive power outages in Texas last winter, if everyone had only electric vehicles, the situation would have far worse, as traffic would have virtually stopped in a day or two.

No need to keep bringing this tired boogeyman back out. EV adoption will not happen overnight, it’ll take 20 years. Plenty of time for us to build out renewables and a resilient grid. We’ll all get to watch it happen, live, I think that’s going to be awesome to see us changing our society for the better.

 

[vandy1981]

Yes the grid can handle one or two electric vehicles per street, but that is a far cry from an electric vehicle in every household, let alone replacing all vehicles with electric vehicles. Several cities in the USA are already suffering from brown outs, and this will only get worse as more people switch to electric vehicles. And then there were the massive power outages in Texas last winter, if everyone had only electric vehicles, the situation would have far worse, as traffic would have virtually stopped in a day or two.

I bet people were making this same point when electric ranges and electric dryers were popularized.

 

[sollie]

This is a great video on the subject:

In short, it isn't a bigger problem than any other period of increased demand in our history, and it is easily addressed. It's a tired argument, and I doubt it's made in good faith. The people making it never seem to worry about what will happen to our poor Internet grid if everyone watches too much Netflix!

 

[Stubblejumper]

I bet people were making this same point when electric ranges and electric dryers were popularized.

As any electrician knows, these loads, and electric heating are taken into account when you calculate the service requirements for a home, and for subdivisions. They have been taken into account for decades, whereas electric vehicles were not taken into account when the vast majority of subdivisions were built.

 

[Stubblejumper]

This is a great video on the subject:

In short, it isn't a bigger problem than any other period of increased demand in our history, and it is easily addressed. It's a tired argument, and I doubt it's made in good faith. The people making it never seem to worry about what will happen to our poor Internet grid if everyone watches too much Netflix!

The guy in the video is looking at this totally from the theoretical side, he isn't looking at it from the practical side. His theory is that of course the power companies will sell you more power, but he doesn't address the issue of where all of that extra electricity will come from. It's not like the current plants can just increase production by 30% or more, and you don't just build an electrical plant these days, especially with today's environmental concerns. The same people pushing for electric vehicles are opposing the construction of more plants because of environmental concerns. He looks at the numbers as to what the percentage of actual electricity will be, but he doesn't address how to coordinate all electrical loads, to balance the transmission, to avoid any peak increases. If everyone come home from work and plugs in their vehicles, you create another huge spike in the demand. As for using Norway as an example, they don't have anywhere near the amount of vehicles per capita that we do, and they don't drive the distances that we do. If you look at the numbers, the average Scandinavian drives between 50-60% as ,many miles per year as the average American.

 

[Brian Head Yankee]

Really? What a doofus! By all means cancel your reservations, its hopeless.

1. Not everyone plugs in at full DC fast charge rate at 5:30 PM like he suggests
2. Not every EV plugs in everyday at exactly the same time
3. If we all got up at 5 AM, took a dump, and flushed at the same time, shit would be flowing in the streets.

 

[BigEd571]

I need the ER battery and will go with the 80A charger. My panel is in the basement and I'll need to get the power to the front of my garage, which is a 40-50 foot run. I've heard the 100A wiring is pretty expensive. Could two 50A wires be run instead of the expensive 100A wire? Would that be more cost effective and/or more safe? Are both copper and aluminum wires an option?

And yes, I will get a qualified electrician to do the work, I'd just like to know if there might be cheaper and safer options available that they might not bring up if I don't ask.

 

[sotek2345]

Partial setup complete. Needed to get something installed for my Wife's Mach-e so had had a 100A circuit run to a disconnect and then the 40A charger connected to that. When it comes time to upgrade, I just need to put in a bigger breaker and swap the wiring from the disconnect (plus whatever other hardware is needed).

 

[jefro]

removed

Also one needs to consult their power company. Austin Energy for example has a deal where you install a meter and EVSE. They charge you $4.80 a month to charge all you want with the stipulation that their smart meter could at some point stop charging your car/truck. Other power companies have smart meters that know you are charging an EV and offer a discount at some time of use.

Sadly when "electric ranges and electric dryers were popularized. " they were basically a linear load. All these EVSE's induce some non-linear component back into the power supply. There are special meters to detect harmonics. These harmonics can really play heck with other devices and switches and wires and connectors. An 80EVSE connected to two onboard chargers could create conditions that a professional may need to address.

 

[shutterbug]

Ford's 80A charger is really two 40A chargers and as I read it, you'd need two 50A circuits. Guess it might be possible to use only one for limited situations. So, no you don't need 100A circuit as such.

I think you're reading it wrong. There are 2 chargers but they are inside the truck with ER battery. The 80A EVSE that is included with that truck is 80A, and it does need 100A circuit.

 

[jefro]

Opps. I had that backwards.

 

[vandy1981]

Sadly when "electric ranges and electric dryers were popularized. " they were basically a linear load. All these EVSE's induce some non-linear component back into the power supply. There are special meters to detect harmonics. These harmonics can really play heck with other devices and switches and wires and connectors. An 80EVSE connected to two onboard chargers could create conditions that a professional may need to address.

Everyone talks about load, but I hadn't heard anyone else bring up the grid implications of harmonic distortion from EVSEs. I wonder if this will be mitigated by the fact that charge initiations are random.

Something else to learn about

 

[jefro]

It's the non-linear effect of having PN junctions in the most basic sense.

Think of an edison bulb with basically a resistor making light. That load is very stable, very linear. The way almost every new item made has some control in it that usually doesn't act like a switch. It acts like sort of like a telegraph key. A lot of on and offs.

It is just a side mention that comes up when some electricians notice wires burned, circuit breaker pop for no obvious reason.

I work on one machine that we've had to keep making the PFC larger and larger since the wires and caps were smoking.

 

[Charley]

First, you don’t have to charge at 80 amps. It can be lower if you choose, unless you drive 300 miles every day. Second you can get load splitters which will prioritize which item gets the load.

Also check with your power company as there may be other options such as a 320 amp service up grade. Or you may be able to install a separate 100 amp service for the charger.

So we may have really screwed this up. I hired an electrician to install a 100 amp breaker box at my pole barn. We installed the recommended wiring from the house breaker box, 200 amp, out to the pole barn. This is where I put my charging station. We put 100 amp breaker in this box and installed the charger according to the installation instructions. The charger now is overheating at 80 amp. (Does fine at 64 and frankly I’m not sure what I really get out of charging at 80 anyway.) What did we do wrong? I wish I could’ve used Sun Run, but those jokers wouldn’t even talk to me, they don’t cover out here in the country.

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