Debate regarding braking, regen, and brake light illumination.

[hturnerfamily]

* But, let's say that you DID have Cruise Control active
my 2 cents: read to the end "

- having Cruise Control already ACTIVE, and the truck then came to a stop because of 'Stop and Go' Cruise activation, on it's own, WITHOUT your intervention, and WITHOUT you applying the brakes yourself, IT WILL THEN MOVE FORWARD WHEN THE VEHICLE AHEAD MOVES FORWARD, as it is designed to.

- ONE PEDAL is NOT a part of Cruise Control, and therefore is NOT suddenly overridden or released simply because the Cruise Control activation button is pressed. ONE PEDAL's design is to APPLY the brakes, CONSTANTLY, and until the DRIVER PHYSICALLY presses the GO pedal to release the braking.


Some thoughts:
A) you allowed ONE PEDAL to bring you to a stop, completely, while it HOLDS, whether behind another vehicle, or not. you then 'accidentally' applied the GO pedal, which released the brakes. This would not, though, 'suddenly' create some type of increase in movement or speed, either, as the ONE PEDAL would still be doing it's job, and would still SLOW and BRAKE the truck, immediately, when you came OFF the GO pedal.

B) while in ONE PEDAL, and at a complete stop, and while NOT applying the GO pedal, you accidentally pressed the CRUISE CONTROL 'middle' button, which activates any FORMER speed setting, and THEN you also accidentally pressed the GO pedal - this 'could' override the ONE PEDAL, and create a sudden increase in speed, although I think even this would not activate the former speed setting and 'suddenly' start to try to get to that speed, on it's own.

C) with FORWARD RADAR WARNING in effect, it's doubtful that any of these would happen with another vehicle in front of you, IF you have the settings of 'AUTOMATIC BRAKING' for this feature, versus just an Alert.

D) if you actually did NOT have ONE PEDAL active, as you assumed, and brought the truck to a stop on your own, with AUTO HOLD in play, you might THINK you had ONE PEDAL active, although it was ONLY Auto Hold, and that could create a situation where the truck would then move forward, IF you accidentally released the Auto Hold by pressing the GO pedal... while it shouldn't then necessarily SUDDENLY lurch into an accelerated speed, if you are in 'NORMAL' drive mode, with little regeneration, it might SEEM that way, when you are caught off guard.

E) if you actually did NOT have ONE PEDAL active, as you assumed, AND you had CRUISE CONTROL active, AND Cruise Control brought you to a stop behind the vehicle ahead of you, then IT is controlling the BRAKE PEDAL, similar to Auto Hold, although it is NOT Auto Hold, and yes, you could then ACCIDENTALLY hit the GO pedal and cause Cruise Control to 'prematurely' release the brakes and move forward, although, again, since the Cruise Control is still active, it would sense the vehicle ahead, and create it's OWN braking action, unless you STAYED on the GO pedal.
* But, let's say that you DID have Cruise Control active and the system brought your truck to a stop behind a vehicle ahead. You then accidentally hit the Cruise Control button, TURNING IT OFF> This action would NOT release the brakes, as the truck is already at a STOP, but now, since Cruise Control is no longer active, if you accidentally hit the GO pedal, even for a slight 1/2 second, it would RELEASE the brakes, and, especially in NORMAL drive mode, the truck might feel like it was 'lurching' forward, and there would be NOTHING TO STOP IT, until YOU apply the brakes.

while it may seem obvious that even employing "Collision Warning" system, which typically might be to STOP the truck, on it's own, if it senses an impending collision, if you are already CLOSE ENOUGH to another vehicle, from a stop, the system may think that you are OVERRIDING the warning system, which is possible.

several times my truck has 'suddenly' braked, with an onscreen alert warning, although the vehicle ahead was already 'turning' out of the way, or was not really as 'close' as the system might make it seem, and my applying the GO pedal kept the truck in motion, and effectively OVERRODE the physical braking Collision action...

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[hturnerfamily]

Same thing happened to me sitting in line at a coffee shop. One pedal was turned off, cruise was off, truck had BC 1.0 at the time. I accidentally hit the cruise control button activating it and when I released the brake, the truck lurched forward. Didn't hit anything but it scared the bajeezus outta me.

while I suspect we all 'think' we know exactly what elements were in effect when a sudden 'happening' takes place, I also believe that we don't always 'know' what we think we do...

it's easy to be swayed by what we believe is supposed to be happening at any given moment, although we might later realize that we didn't have ONE PEDAL on, or AUTO HOLD was not really set, or questions about possibly 'hitting' Cruise activation, accidentally... or whether our foot touched the pedal without realizing it, etc...

Cruise Control can, in no way, 'all of a sudden' deploy to speed - it's not how it works.
- if CC was not yet activated, with the center button, then accidentally pressing that button only serves to set the CURRENT speed for Cruise - if you are stopped, then nothing happens.
- if CC was ALREADY activated, and you are stopped, it does NOT suddenly go to 'speed', as the system has a built-in recognition of the current speed before it does, and speeds lower than a certain rate, a minimum speed, such as 25mph, will NOT activate the 'automatic' speed control.
- if CC was ALREADY activated, and you ARE in motion, then, YES, it 'could' get up to the former set speed, IF you are ALREADY above the minimum speed... otherwise, it does nothing.

ONE PEDAL has no affect on Cruise Control. Factually, ONE PEDAL would STOP the vehicle, as it is designed, and would NOT increase any speed, from a DEAD STOP... yes, if you have CC activated, it becomes the decision maker in the equation, but ONLY once UP TO speed - controlling not only SPEED, but also braking, if it senses a vehicle slowing ahead.

AUTO HOLD has no affect on Cruise Control, or vice versa. Releasing AUTO HOLD requires the pedal, and even then, it only serves to release the physical braking - whatever drive mode you are in at the moment, and the terrain, will be what movement the truck takes, on it's own, such as creeping, or coasting.

I don't see in any of these possible situations where the truck could 'suddenly', and 'on it's own', lurch forward, at speed, even with CC activated, while in either AUTO HOLD, ONE PEDAL, or both, WITHOUT the owner/driver pressing the GO pedal, or deactivating ONE PEDAL.

Accidents are called accidents because they are not intentional, for the most part. We sometimes just don't realize what really happened because, well, it happens so fast, and catches us off-guard. I suspect that any data that can be collected from the truck will show one of these 'human element' interventions, as unfortunate as that may be.


and, to any naysayers or those who don't 'trust' the Adaptive Cruise and similar technology, I've driven many thousands of miles, with many of those through downtown ATLANTA RUSH HOUR traffic on I85/I75 with bumper-to-bumper 2mph to 62mph stop-n-go heavy traffic, allowing ADAPTIVE CRUISE to take me the whole way, whether coming to a COMPLETE STOP behind the vehicle ahead, slowing dramatically when vehicles ahead come to a sudden stop, or 'creeping' slowly for miles, back-and-forth between stop, 2mph, to 62mph, for instance. It's a joy.

I do not use ONE PEDAL regularly, but I have on occasions, and while I don't enjoy it's requirement to keep my foot constantly on the GO pedal, it does work as intended, bringing you to even a complete stop, if you allow it. Many like to use this in stop-n-go traffic, though.

I DO use AUTO HOLD, constantly, as I like the truck to STAY at a complete stop, as needed, UNTIL I choose to put my foot on the GO pedal, even so slightly, to then 'creep' forward, or even to suddenly get up to a much faster speed. It works perfectly. This allows me to coast, when I want, and use the physical brakes, gingerly, as needed, depending on whether in NORMAL or SPORT driving mode.

 

[keith.springer]

while I suspect we all 'think' we know exactly what elements were in effect when a sudden 'happening' takes place, I also believe that we don't always 'know' what we think we do...

it's easy to be swayed by what we believe is supposed to be happening at any given moment, although we might later realize that we didn't have ONE PEDAL on, or AUTO HOLD was not really set, or questions about possibly 'hitting' Cruise activation, accidentally... or whether our foot touched the pedal without realizing it, etc...

Cruise Control can, in no way, 'all of a sudden' deploy to speed - it's not how it works.
- if CC was not yet activated, with the center button, then accidentally pressing that button only serves to set the CURRENT speed for Cruise - if you are stopped, then nothing happens.
- if CC was ALREADY activated, and you are stopped, it does NOT suddenly go to 'speed', as the system has a built-in recognition of the current speed before it does, and speeds lower than a certain rate, a minimum speed, such as 25mph, will NOT activate the 'automatic' speed control.
- if CC was ALREADY activated, and you ARE in motion, then, YES, it 'could' get up to the former set speed, IF you are ALREADY above the minimum speed... otherwise, it does nothing.

ONE PEDAL has no affect on Cruise Control. Factually, ONE PEDAL would STOP the vehicle, as it is designed, and would NOT increase any speed, from a DEAD STOP... yes, if you have CC activated, it becomes the decision maker in the equation, but ONLY once UP TO speed - controlling not only SPEED, but also braking, if it senses a vehicle slowing ahead.

AUTO HOLD has no affect on Cruise Control, or vice versa. Releasing AUTO HOLD requires the pedal, and even then, it only serves to release the physical braking - whatever drive mode you are in at the moment, and the terrain, will be what movement the truck takes, on it's own, such as creeping, or coasting.

I don't see in any of these possible situations where the truck could 'suddenly', and 'on it's own', lurch forward, at speed, even with CC activated, while in either AUTO HOLD, ONE PEDAL, or both, WITHOUT the owner/driver pressing the GO pedal, or deactivating ONE PEDAL.

Accidents are called accidents because they are not intentional, for the most part. We sometimes just don't realize what really happened because, well, it happens so fast, and catches us off-guard. I suspect that any data that can be collected from the truck will show one of these 'human element' interventions, as unfortunate as that may be.


and, to any naysayers or those who don't 'trust' the Adaptive Cruise and similar technology, I've driven many thousands of miles, with many of those through downtown ATLANTA RUSH HOUR traffic on I85/I75 with bumper-to-bumper 2mph to 62mph stop-n-go heavy traffic, allowing ADAPTIVE CRUISE to take me the whole way, whether coming to a COMPLETE STOP behind the vehicle ahead, slowing dramatically when vehicles ahead come to a sudden stop, or 'creeping' slowly for miles, back-and-forth between stop, 2mph, to 62mph, for instance. It's a joy.

I do not use ONE PEDAL regularly, but I have on occasions, and while I don't enjoy it's requirement to keep my foot constantly on the GO pedal, it does work as intended, bringing you to even a complete stop, if you allow it. Many like to use this in stop-n-go traffic, though.

I DO use AUTO HOLD, constantly, as I like the truck to STAY at a complete stop, as needed, UNTIL I choose to put my foot on the GO pedal, even so slightly, to then 'creep' forward, or even to suddenly get up to a much faster speed. It works perfectly. This allows me to coast, when I want, and use the physical brakes, gingerly, as needed, depending on whether in NORMAL or SPORT driving mode.

I do know what features I had on and off. I typically use the same features all the time. And I recall distinctly bumping the cruise button right before the truck lurched. I did not imagine it.

 

[mattskr]

- ONE PEDAL is NOT a part of Cruise Control, and therefore is NOT suddenly overridden or released simply because the Cruise Control activation button is pressed. ONE PEDAL's design is to APPLY the brakes, CONSTANTLY, and until the DRIVER PHYSICALLY presses the GO pedal to release the braking.

OPD never applies the brakes, in fact it's the opposite. You have to manually step on the brake to get more stopping power if needed. When you let off the accelerator in OPD mode it uses the resistance of the motors to slow down the vehicle and recharge the batteries. My brakes still look new because I've mastered the art of slowing down using only the pedal.

The only way I know of the truck being able to lurch forward without touching the accelerator is cruise control was enabled (more likely if it had recently been used) or OPD mode (or auto-hold mode) was suddenly disabled, then without any feet on the pedals the truck would move forward.

 

[mattskr]

I have had this happen to me while having Blue Cruise on and in stop and go traffic. There was an instance where the truck accelerated with a large 18-wheeler in front of me. It was like the system suddenly didn't see the truck in front of me and decided to accelerate. Thankfully I had enough distance to brake in time.

I have learned to not trust this truck's Adaptive Cruise Crontrol in stop-and-go traffic. My previous vehicle was a BMW with the Traffic Assist and it did much much better in traffic situation.

I've had this happen too, same thing it was a big grey trailer in front of me. My guess is the truck was too tall for the radar in the bumpers to see it properly and being grey on a cloudy day also made it invisible. Now I turn it off if I'm behind a truck (or motorcycle, just in case)

 

[hturnerfamily]

OPD never applies the brakes, in fact it's the opposite. You have to manually step on the brake to get more stopping power if needed...

I think it may 'seem' that ONE PEDAL only uses regeneration, but that's not the case, as regen will NEVER bring the truck to a complete stop, ONLY the physical brakes will do that... ONE PEDAL certainly employs physical braking, along with regen, with a ratio depending on the speed at the time the driver comes off the GO pedal...

to test this, use ONE PEDAL at night, and watch 'when' your rear brake lights come one - you'll see that it might not be immediate, depending on speed, but it will apply the brakes, at some point, as it comes to a complete stop. Yes, you may have to help by applying the brakes, yourself, to come to a faster stop, depending on the situation, of course.

on the other hand, REGEN itself does NOT apply the physical brakes, EVER, and you'll never see the rear brake lights come on, NO MATTER what speed or slowing happens... the truck will continue to 'creep', and will never come to a complete stop with any physical braking.

The only way I know of the truck being able to lurch forward without touching the accelerator is cruise control was enabled (more likely if it had recently been used) or OPD mode (or auto-hold mode) was suddenly disabled, then without any feet on the pedals the truck would move forward.

Because the truck is ALREADY at a stop, nothing you do, settings-wise, is going to change that, even if you remove a driver assist feature.
The truck is already at a stop, the brakes are already applied, and ONLY stepping on the GO pedal will change that. The truck is designed to maintain any BRAKE APPLIED element without regard to any other future 'on screen' or 'button' changes.
Therefore, the truck then CANNOT move forward simply because you turn ON Cruise Control, or hit the RESUME button, or remove AUTO HOLD, or remove ONE PEDAL - none of these will change that. But, stepping on the GO pedal will.

...as to why the truck may then seem to 'lurch' forward, as though the truck is 'building up' momentum before it breaks loose, is a mystery. I do remember having this feeling, early on, back in late 2022, when the truck was new to me.

This was due to the truck applying the EMERGENCY BRAKES. When it did this, either without me realizing it, or me not understanding how it works, the truck then would 'hesitate' to go when I applied the GO pedal, even if I only meant to move a few feet forward in my garage. WOW!
...it would then LURCH forward, suddenly, and would scare the living b***g***ies out of me.
I couldn't understand what was happening.

It then came to me. While the truck was in DRIVE, and with AUTO HOLD keeping it in place, I had opened the driver door. This did NOT put the truck in Park, but only applied the EMERGENCY BRAKES, with that typical 'ziiiiiinnnnggg' sound, as the brakes physically compress against the rotors.

When I then applied the GO pedal, either with the door open, or closed, it HESITATED, struggling, even against my heavy PRESSURE on the GO pedal, more and more, until it FINALLY broke loose and Lurched forward!

 

[Henry Ford]

I think it may 'seem' that ONE PEDAL only uses regeneration, but that's not the case, as regen will NEVER bring the truck to a complete stop, ONLY the physical brakes will do that... ONE PEDAL certainly employs physical braking, along with regen, with a ratio depending on the speed at the time the driver comes off the GO pedal...

to test this, use ONE PEDAL at night, and watch 'when' your rear brake lights come one - you'll see that it might not be immediate, depending on speed, but it will apply the brakes, at some point, as it comes to a complete stop. Yes, you may have to help by applying the brakes, yourself, to come to a faster stop, depending on the situation, of course.

on the other hand, REGEN itself does NOT apply the physical brakes, EVER, and you'll never see the rear brake lights come on, NO MATTER what speed or slowing happens... the truck will continue to 'creep', and will never come to a complete stop with any physical braking.

The brake lights come on at a certain deceleration rate (1.3m/s2 in EU, manufacturer choice in US) or brake pedal application. If you aren't pressing the brake pedal there isn't a reliable way to determine if friction brakes are in use.

 

[hturnerfamily]

The brake lights come on at a certain deceleration rate (1.3m/s2 in EU, manufacturer choice in US) or brake pedal application. If you aren't pressing the brake pedal there isn't a reliable way to determine if friction brakes are in use.

while this may 'seem' to be the case, it is not. You may be confusing what 'other' vehicles might do, but not the LIGHTNING.

TEST IT. That's the only way you will come to the same correct conclusion - REGEN never, ever applies the brakes.

 

[tls]

"REGEN never applies the brakes" and "regen never illuminates the brake lights" are not the same.

 

[hturnerfamily]

"REGEN never applies the brakes" and "regen never illuminates the brake lights" are not the same.

the ONLY way brake lights illuminate is by PHYSICAL braking, not by Regen...never. TEST IT.

 

[tls]

Will do. This should be a fun test.

 

[hturnerfamily]

I don't doubt that you'll find the same, but, let me also tell you a true story:

early on, back in late 2022, I was coming back thru town, at dusk... with a State Trooper right behind me...

Strangely, he pulled me over heading out of town, right at the turn in to my home...

"Sir", he says, "did you realize that your Brake Lights aren't working ? "
"Your brake lights NEVER illuminated through all of those SEVEN traffic signals thru town... "

hmmmmmm

backstory: I love driving in SPORT MODE, with a certain amount of REGEN that allows me to easily 'cruise' slowly thru town, and in this case, without having to stop at ANY of the lights, as they all turned GREEN just as I was slowly approaching them, NEVER having physically applied any braking - it's actually a fun 'test' to see if you never have to come to a complete stop... but, I digress.

"Sir", I responded, "while I appreciate your concern, and it's well noted, I am driving a new 'electric' truck, which does not always need to use the brakes, but slows, ON IT'S OWN, with the motor regeneration".... and, I added... " so, I actually NEVER had to apply the brakes, as you could see..."

"but..." I added, " let me show you that they DO indeed 'work'..."

I then simply put my foot on the brake pedal, applying it Off and ON, several times, as he stepped to the rear of the truck to 'see'...


Looking Stunned, as he re-approached my window.... he said...

"Sir, thank you so much for your explanation. They certainly DO work!.... I wasn't aware of this, but, I will surely be educating my co-workers at the next monthly REGION Meeting for the State Patrol. We all need to be aware of this. I appreciate your patience. Thanks for sharing this educational information with me. Have a great evening!" as he smiled, graciously.



He may have even shook my hand.



*This is NOT with ONE PEDAL mode, but only in SPORT Driving Mode. Even when I encountered a 'slow' traffic signal change, with no vehicle right in front of me, the truck might come to an 'almost' stop, yet never really stopped, and 'crept' forward, slowly, never with any actual braking.

 

[flyct]

the ONLY way brake lights illuminate is by PHYSICAL braking, not by Regen...never. TEST IT.

If that were true it would be crazy. I never touch my brake pedal when driving. If so I would never engage brake lights and I would get rear ended daily.

 

[LazyLightningATX]

the ONLY way brake lights illuminate is by PHYSICAL braking, not by Regen...never. TEST IT.

this is not correct unless i am misunderstanding what you are saying. Say i am on the highway at speed (one pedal driving) and i take my foot all the way off the accelerator, I can literally see my brake lights light up the instant my foot comes off. my tesla did this, every EV that has one pedal I believe does this. It would be so dangerous if they didn't.

 

[hturnerfamily]

If that were true it would be crazy. I never touch my brake pedal when driving. If so I would never engage brake lights and I would get rear ended daily.

the truth is not always what you assume.... TEST IT.

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