Important Update: Ford EV Roadmap & Future of F-150 Lightning (EREV Next Gen Model) - ⛔️ ADMIN WARNING: NO POLITICS

[Tony Burgh]

Maybe I get one of these EREV trucks.
I’ll crank up the audio and play Jethro Tull “Locomotive Breath”

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[Oafy44]

Not to defend Ford , and I have posted a few posts on this thread about my disappointment ….but ….as single /purchaser/homeowner , small business - we forget that ford has a huge commercial business and a ford pro / fleet would just not be justifiable with the build out needed to support a fleet at a business location …unless the location was built new and the charging infrastructure was added during the build but still won’t justify vs cheap gas right now. and honestly maybe it’s for the best right now as electrical companies can charge a premium right now for all the build out going on right now. Retrofitting a shop for more then 4 or 5 vehicles costs $100k or more - I just talked to a business owner and he got quotes for $1m to be able to charge 25 vehicles at his shop

Ford sells municipalities /business’ dozens /hundreds of trucks a year. Most business would love EVs but the build out /retrofit just isn’t feasible for the most part….yet

So ford has to focus on what it makes money on - if they don’t - they will fail. Selfishly I would love them to make the lightning just like Ram made the 1500 classic for so long even though they had newer models for retail. That way business can grow with the infrastructure that is being built now. But I’m not the one responsible for a $20b 4th quarter charge off.

I’m confident ford/3rd party will make parts and batteries in the future

I still don’t think large business will buy a EREV - because they still need a charging Infrastructure. So I’ll be interested to see how ford does with this offering. My neighbor powerboost and was getting 1 MPG better then his ecoboost - so it’s all marketing and non knowledgeable buyers think they are saving money. My neighbor bought a lightning last year and says it’s the best truck he’s ever had

As far as retail /singer lightning purchase - it is ironic the very customer ford caved to will be the one that probably hurts it in the long run.

 

[hturnerfamily]

Get this Ford, I will NEVER buy an EREV. The Lightning isn’t perfect but I will stick with it until either it dies or I die or a much better EV comes out.

I will say this for all the Lightning fans, the Lightning became a classic as soon as it went into production. Someday our Lightnings are going to selling for high dollars at classic auto auctions. Just the power alone puts most of the classic cars of the 1960s to shame.

agreed, as this whole idea that simply because FORD may be waffling and going in a different direction somehow makes our LIGHTNING outdated, is pure poppycock... that's not how it works. A good vehicle, or, well, a GREAT vehicle like the LIGHTNING, will always be a Very Big HIGHLIGHT event in the annals of time. We may already be driving a CLASSIC. That's o.k., as I've owned many CLASSIC 1965/1966 MUSTANGS.

 

[hturnerfamily]

"as for me and my house..."

I haven't owned anything that requires gas or oil in many years, and don't miss one single day of it...

I don't EVER look forward to going back to 'gas', no matter what 'type' of powertrain or generator these manufacturers promote... a PURE EV is the only way to go... whether my LIGHTNING, or my TRIMMER, or my WEED EATER, or my iPHONE, or my CHROMEBOOK... you get the idea.

I haven't visited a gas station in YEARS: that is a very strange idea for most drivers, but, unless I need a bathroom or a snack, I'll just continue to pass them all bye..... bye bye.

 

[evowner]

No, it's just going to likely be a tuned version of a NA engine that will be optimized to run at certain RPMs depending on called for load for the generator. An ICE motor used for propulsion is far more inefficient than one used for generator use.




You truly think an EREV will kill you in the garage running?

I have an idea we can test this theory. Go get a generator fire it up in your garage. Get back with us on your results.

 

[evowner]

No, an EREV is not an EV. ELECTRIC VEHICLE.

People can wordsmith all they want. ELECTRIC VEHICLE doesn't include GASOLINE.

A PHEV is a misnomer also. It's a Plug-in HYBRID. If you want to call a HYBRID an ELECTRIC VEHICLE, THEN YOU HAVE TO ALSO CALL IT A GAS VEHICLE...

Bunch of BS garbage they're using.

Exactly. It is just like my wife's Camry Hybrid. The ICE engine / generator is now 10 yrs old. It has been maintained by the dealer at approximately $200.00/yr It is now 10 yrs old. the engine still runs but it burns about a quart of oil a month. We really need to take it to the scrap yard but she won't let it go.

There will be similar problems over the years with a generator. If they put it in a spot that you cannot easily access, the service fees will be high and make it difficult for a do it yourself person.

 

[Tony Burgh]

Just for giggles for our engineers here:
I want to drive 80 mph for 5 hours straight in my new Lightning EREV. Nice conditions but getting 1.25 mi/kwh (these are what my physics prof used to call “nice” numbers). I have a 200 kwh battery (hahaha, like that will happen). I like diesel fuel to run my generator.
What power rating do I need for the engine running my Ford Lightning gen set?

Start at 100% SOC. End at 0%. Don’t worry, diesel breath will limp you to Tesla supercharger.

Show your work and assumptions for full credit.

 

[drdirk]

I do not see many reviews on the #1 and only reason Ford discontinued the Lighting and that is that they lost way too much money on each one they sold. It just does not make sense for Ford or any other manufacturer to looks $20k per vehicle. A big battery in a heavy EV truck makes for a VERY expensive vehicle. Thats why the rest of the world only builds small EV for the most part.

 

[jsamp17]

80mph for 5 hours so a 400 mile trip.
1.25miles / kwh efficiency with a 200kwh battery has us at 250 miles. We need 150 miles ER.

150 additional miles at the same efficiency would need 120kwh. To land at exactly 0% at the end of our trip means we have 5 hours to generate it -> 120kwh/5 hours means a 24kw generator would be needed.

(The generator can use the whole time because the 80mph at 1.25mi/kwh implies a burn rate of 64kw --this is more than the 24kw so there instantly "room" for the ER charge).

Quick backwards check:
200kwh + 24kw * 5 hrs -> 320kwh
320kwh * 1.25 miles / kwh -> 400mi

 

[Kakaratto]

Hi everyone,

I have owned two Volts (2012 and 2017 MY) and I loved them both. My only issue was battery range. I wish Chevorlet would have given us 100 -150 miles of electric range (we only had 40 and 52). I then transitioned to the Bolt EUV and loved it. However, I then purchased a fishing boat and needed something bigger that I could tow with.

I do agree with Ford that towing range is an issue. I will be watching with interest when the new Lightning EREV comes out. I am not sure if you are reading this Ford (or Brian), but a 100-150 mile battery range on an EREV would be perfect for most people (including myself). Also, please keep DCFC for those of us who want to use it.

I love my Lightning period. However, for my next vehicle, I will be looking for a vehicle that can handle those few longer road trips that I take each year when I need to tow my boat. This is why I seriously considered the Ramcharger when it was announced.

 

[jsamp17]

Maybe more interesting with the announcement numbers...

700 miles
Assumptions: 70mph (10hrs), 1.7mi/kwh, 200kwh batt.

200kwh * 1.7 mi/kwh -> 340mi. Need ER 360mi.
360mi / 1.7 mi/kwh -> 212kwh
212kwh / 10 hrs -> 21.2kw gen

Still 20 something kw. The battery pack will be smaller than that...maybe the efficiency is a bit higher in ideal conditions...but then charging a battery might have about 10% loss...but maybe thats avoided by directly supplying inverters/motors most of the time.

 

[Lomilar]

Just for giggles for our engineers here:
I want to drive 80 mph for 5 hours straight in my new Lightning EREV. Nice conditions but getting 1.25 mi/kwh (these are what my physics prof used to call “nice” numbers). I have a 200 kwh battery (hahaha, like that will happen). I like diesel fuel to run my generator.
What power rating do I need for the engine running my Ford Lightning gen set?

Start at 100% SOC. End at 0%. Don’t worry, diesel breath will limp you to Tesla supercharger.

Show your work and assumptions for full credit.

Dawg I'm way ahead of you.

Overcoming rolling resistance and aero requires a combined ~1600N of force, 340N of rolling resistance and 1245N of air resistance, highly dependent on altitude, humidity, etc.

To figure out the energy required to counteract the force at 35.76 m/s, you need 1585N * 35.75m/s, or 56.6KW at the wheels, or 60KW with 5% losses and 400W of power overhead for other running systems.

60KW ~= 80HP. Efficiency tends to maximize around ~50% throttle, but given you can use that energy to recharge the battery, it doesn't really matter what power rating you have as long as you aren't going uphill and it's better than an MX-5 Miata.

Let me know if you want my spreadsheet.

P.S. I AM NOT SAYING the EREV Lightning has a Miata engine in it. I don't want to end up on Electrek!

 

[Tony Burgh]

Dawg I'm way ahead of you.

Overcoming rolling resistance and aero requires a combined ~1600N of force, 340N of rolling resistance and 1245N of air resistance, highly dependent on altitude, humidity, etc.

To figure out the energy required to counteract the force at 35.76 m/s, you need 1585N * 35.75m/s, or 56.6KW at the wheels, or 60KW with 5% losses and 400W of power overhead for other running systems.

60KW ~= 80HP. Efficiency tends to maximize around ~50% throttle, but given you can use that energy to recharge the battery, it doesn't really matter what power rating you have as long as you aren't going uphill and it's better than an MX-5 Miata.

Let me know if you want my spreadsheet.

P.S. I AM NOT SAYING the EREV Lightning has a Miata engine in it. I don't want to end up on Electrek!

Much more work than I planned to do. Hahaha. Looks good.
My back of envelope scribbles got me to 100 bhp for Gen set of 40% efficiency.
Like you say, it ain’t gonna be a Briggs and Stratton lawnmower engine in the bed of the truck.

 

[Wendy]

Hey you guys are jumping to conclusions (and I'm only on page 29 so more jumping to read)
You don't have all the details about the 'generator', but I have some inside information from Not AI ... they will be installing one of these generators on each of the 4 tires:

Very quiet. Doesn't take up any room in the Frunk! The 'gas' that Brian is referring to is that they will be filling the tires with nitrogen which apparently will make the generator more efficient.

 

[PJnc284]

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