Odd AC Charging behaviour

[truthlesshunter]

Yes, sadly, the way the Ford BMS for the 12v battery works is not designed for longevity:

It does not top it off all the way to 100% on a regular basis;
when it charges the 12v it does not limit the current to a healthy level apparently which ends up damaging the battery over time (heat);
it allows the 12v battery SOC to get low which results in sulfates building up over time.

Here's some more info fyi:
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I keep my 12v battery on a trickle charger/battery maintainer with an AGM mode to avoid premature death (its, not mine) and to ensure OTAs get installed..

Deep discharge, which the lightning algorithm allows, is not good for longevity of these batteries, and the high charging currents seen when the battery is low, are another bad feature of the lightning system of 12v battery management.

This post form the Mach-e forum goes into depth about these 12v AGM batteries:

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/how-to-recondition-service-your-12v-battery.11069/


If the details about how AGM battery charging progresses are accurate, the truck will not, on it's own, top off the battery in many cases because of the time it takes. That makes a trickle charger even more important for longevity since it can be on the 12v battery for many hours at a time charging even when the truck HV is not.


And this one about the different ways to charge up the battery to get OTAs:

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/how-to-get-failed-otas-to-install.29749/

Also several threads here about putting trickle chargers on the battery and how to make it easier by adding a trickle charger wire:

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/charging-12v-battery.16979/

This is what I did (a fused SAE cord to the charge port from the battery):

super helpful...thanks. i'll have to keep this in mind as a possibility and safeguard

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[ZSC100]

super helpful...thanks. i'll have to keep this in mind as a possibility and safeguard

Get an OBDLink adapter and CarScanner immediately. You can watch your 12V charging system and so many other things live and probably diagnose the issue yourself without even reading DTC's but also Read the DTC's and clear them with the same troubleshooting logic and if it's the truck you will know quickly.

I suspect it's something with your EVSEs, bad contacts somewhere, loose wires, etc. If it's anything outside the truck you likely won't be able to diagnose it with the truck. Let us know once you get CarScanner going and we'll tell you what PIDs to look at while attempting to charge.

 

[Adventureboy]

As mentioned, dealer didn't want to take it in because it started working again...

They can check the codes remotely. You don't even need to take the truck in for them to identify a problem. When I call my dealer about anything, that is the first thing my service advisor does and we talk from that point forward.

 

[Adventureboy]

In your case, if both EVSEs identified a Ground Fault (leakage to ground), it can be caused by the truck or by a wiring fault to the EVSE (I've seen errors caused on both sides with my truck). It appears to be the truck in your case since it throws the fault when you plug in and your other EV is fine. Intermittent faults like this are a b*tch to find so I understand the dealer's hesitation.

The 12V system can give you grief, but unless you've seen other symptoms, I doubt that is the issue. I certainly wouldn't rule it out. A quick voltage check on the 12v when you get the error would rule it out, but if the truck starts fine, it likely isn't that.

 

[bc1]

Just wondering how many stealership service advisors will get on the computer and check your codes without charging you for a service call or you actually being there for a warranty work or service call where they had you sign an authorization that may bind you to pay for something not covered by ford warranty? Somehow I don't think I'd have any luck if I made a cold call to one who didn't know me from Adam even if he could look it up and see someone with my name bot the truck there.

 

[Adventureboy]

Just wondering how many stealership service advisors will get on the computer and check your codes without charging you for a service call or you actually being there for a warranty work or service call where they had you sign an authorization that may bind you to pay for something not covered by ford warranty? Somehow I don't think I'd have any luck if I made a cold call to one who didn't know me from Adam even if he could look it up and see someone with my name bot the truck there.

I consider myself very lucky on this front. I've always known the codes it is throwing before I call. That way, I'm calling from a somewhat knowledgeable position - and I have a good relationship with the service rep ;-)

 

[chl]

In your case, if both EVSEs identified a Ground Fault (leakage to ground), it can be caused by the truck or by a wiring fault to the EVSE (I've seen errors caused on both sides with my truck). It appears to be the truck in your case since it throws the fault when you plug in and your other EVSE is fine. Intermittent faults like this are a b*tch to find so I understand the dealer's hesitation.

The 12V system can give you grief, but unless you've seen other symptoms, I doubt that is the issue. I certainly wouldn't rule it out. A quick voltage check on the 12v when you get the error would rule it out, but if the truck starts fine, it likely isn't that.

Yea, I agree, I overlooked the ground fault being id'd by the EVSE's.

So most likely a problem in the charge port or it's wiring.

Might check for rodent damage to the port wiring, that has been seen before!

I guess I read the op too quickly while trying to prepare for the upcoming sub-zero temps and heavy snow and ice.

Found this video about such an issue - just the basics:

 

[bc1]

Yea, I agree, I overlooked the ground fault being id'd by the EVSE's.

So most likely a problem in the charge port or it's wiring.

Might check for rodent damage to the port wiring, that has been seen before!

I guess I read the op too quickly while trying to prepare for the upcoming sub-zero temps and heavy snow and ice.

Found this video about such an issue - just the basics:

Didn't look at the video but number one that comes to mind is the blonde standing in a puddle of water while holding the charger handle. A lot of my problems would be solved if she was the one plugging in my charger every night.

 

[chl]

Didn't look at the video but number one that comes to mind is the blonde standing in a puddle of water while holding the charger handle. A lot of my problems would be solved if she was the one plugging in my charger every night.

Yes, the 'chicks' in the background all through the video are a hoot...in one case, a young woman has apparently plugged a J1772 into her vehicle and can't figure out what to do with the plug cover hanging from the EVSE cord.

The video is geared to non-technically trained people, but it covers the things everyone mentioned about the EVSE reporting a ground fault.

PS: she might be AI?

 

[bc1]

PS: she might be AI?

If she is AI then I need to be AI too. They would have to be doing something with Chatgpt that I haven't figured out.

 

[chl]

If she is AI then I need to be AI too. They would have to be doing something with Chatgpt that I haven't figured out.

As they say...

 

[truthlesshunter]

Yea, I agree, I overlooked the ground fault being id'd by the EVSE's.

So most likely a problem in the charge port or it's wiring.

Might check for rodent damage to the port wiring, that has been seen before!

I guess I read the op too quickly while trying to prepare for the upcoming sub-zero temps and heavy snow and ice.

Found this video about such an issue - just the basics:

sorry i'm getting to you late...haven't been online for the past few days.

it's 100% NOT an EVSE or wiring issue. Both EVSEs register everything correclty upon connecting and both charge at full normal speed to other EVs. It's 100% the lightning...and now it has stopped AC charging again. And my dealership can't see the truck for two weeks...so yeah, first ford, and unless they at least fix this and cover my extra charges (since DC is literally 3-4x the price of me chargning at home...and nowhere near as convenient), this will be my last.

Should have stretched and gone for a rivian at this point. I hope my opinion changes.

 

[Adventureboy]

sorry i'm getting to you late...haven't been online for the past few days.

it's 100% NOT an EVSE or wiring issue. Both EVSEs register everything correclty upon connecting and both charge at full normal speed to other EVs. It's 100% the lightning...and now it has stopped AC charging again. And my dealership can't see the truck for two weeks...so yeah, first ford, and unless they at least fix this and cover my extra charges (since DC is literally 3-4x the price of me chargning at home...and nowhere near as convenient), this will be my last.

Should have stretched and gone for a rivian at this point. I hope my opinion changes.

Summary of symptoms:
- Your onboard charger is flaky.
- Your modem (gateway) is offline
- Your AC is flaky.

Perhaps try a 12v reset (pull the 12v negative terminal for 5-10 minutes and replace). This might clear its brains and get communications back online. It should at least restore the modem(gateway) communications so your dealer can see the truck again, even if only temporarily. If the symptoms are the same after the reset, then a trip to the dealer is likely needed. Any chance you negotiated a bit of a warranty when you bought it?

I had a similar GFI situation in my first year with my 2023, and it also happened to be a Grizzl-E EVSE. The truck would DCFC but intermittent on L2. It got progressively worse until it finally quit, and they replaced the Onboard charger - no problems since. Incidentally, any module that is not working as it should can cause communication errors with other modules.

Rivian isn't trouble-free on this front either, nor is any complex vehicle, EV, Hybrid, ICE....

 

[truthlesshunter]

Summary of symptoms:
- Your onboard charger is flaky.
- Your modem (gateway) is offline
- Your AC is flaky.

Perhaps try a 12v reset (pull the 12v negative terminal for 5-10 minutes and replace). This might clear its brains and get communications back online. It should at least restore the modem(gateway) communications so your dealer can see the truck again, even if only temporarily. If the symptoms are the same after the reset, then a trip to the dealer is likely needed. Any chance you negotiated a bit of a warranty when you bought it?

I had a similar GFI situation in my first year with my 2023, and it also happened to be a Grizzl-E EVSE. The truck would DCFC but intermittent on L2. It got progressively worse until it finally quit, and they replaced the Onboard charger - no problems since. Incidentally, any module that is not working as it should can cause communication errors with other modules.

Rivian isn't trouble-free on this front either, nor is any complex vehicle, EV, Hybrid, ICE....

I totally agree that rivian isn't trouble free either...but that's the one I wanted more and hesitated with ford for a few reasons...but the wife, believe or not, wanted the lightning more so here we are..it's just been rough with the dealerships since purchase, and now this stupid charging issue

I didn't negotiate a warranty...but this should be the on board charger and should be covered under the battery warranty, no? and...this happened straight from the (ford) dealership. How could they sell something that doesn't work correctly off the lot in good faith?

 

[Adventureboy]

I totally agree that rivian isn't trouble free either...but that's the one I wanted more and hesitated with ford for a few reasons...but the wife, believe or not, wanted the lightning more so here we are..it's just been rough with the dealerships since purchase, and now this stupid charging issue

I didn't negotiate a warranty...but this should be the on board charger and should be covered under the battery warranty, no? and...this happened straight from the (ford) dealership. How could they sell something that doesn't work correctly off the lot in good faith?

Definitely frustrating. Yes the Onboard charger and charge port are covered under the 8 year warranty.
Also check the coolant level in the tank on the drivers side. You can see it with the frunk open through the actuator slot. That needs to be about 1/2 full and I think AC uses that coolant.

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