023 Lightning (Build 08/23) – No Heat / No Defrost Heat – Dealer says “failed heater assembly” (any insight?)

[Balke]

Had a long back and forth with the BEV customer support. The stance they have is that the dealership has diagnosed and said part is not under warranty so they cannot tell them it is. "they are not technicians and cant advise them on how to proceed". Requesting all the diagnostic and part numbers now.

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[ZSC100]

Had a long back and forth with the BEV customer support. The stance they have is that the dealership has diagnosed and said part is not under warranty so they cannot tell them it is. "they are not technicians and cant advise them on how to proceed". Requesting all the diagnostic and part numbers now.

Escalate to a BEV customer service manager, once there, request that the BEV team acquires the paperwork directly from your service advisor, once they have the paperwork showing the diagnosis and the part number, request a technical review and confirmation that the failed part is indeed the coolant heater that preconditions the high voltage battery. Once this is confirmed by the BEV team from their own technical SME They will approve warranty coverage.

 

[Balke]

This is becoming insane. BEC support said SME told them that part does not precondition the battery. I told them I will need that it writing. She said they would send a screenshot and tried to hang up. I told them I will wait on hold until I get it. Now on hold... again.

 

[Balke]

Update, BEC support said it should be covered but they cant tell a dealership to cover it. "we would get in trouble". Not sure what my next move should be. Trying to get switched to a manager at dealership that may know more about EVs and can explain to me why it wouldn't be covered.

 

[KHines]

FWIW, my ‘23 had the same part fail a few months ago. It was just outside of the service action affected date range. Fortunately was still within 3/36.
@Ford Motor Company

 

[Balke]

FWIW, my ‘23 had the same part fail a few months ago. It was just outside of the service action affected date range. Fortunately was still within 3/36.
@Ford Motor Company

I think its obviously a defect and they don't want to stand behind it. Been searching this for a while and it seems to be a common problem. The recall they put out should have been broader in my opinion.

 

[Balke]

Here are some images that may help some others out. Dealership refuses to do the work under warranty. BEV support talked to SME, initially said it was not part of hv system but after more conversations and long holds the said it was and "I am not sure why they aren't covered. Relayed that to dealership but no dice.

 

[KHines]

I think its obviously a defect and they don't want to stand behind it. Been searching this for a while and it seems to be a common problem. The recall they put out should have been broader in my opinion.

Quite possibly. Recalls/service actions are created based on known information so things can and will lag a bit. From my in-the-business perspective, remain calm and give the benefit of the doubt to your service team; they’re trying their best.
Might not be a bad idea to reach out to general Ford customer service and open a ticket.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Maybe someone should point out the pictorial diagram to these alleged engineers that the PTC is indeed a ~part~ of the HVB thermal management system, while it also keeps the cabin warm, depending on the position of the diverter valve (3) SMH!

{Ford Mustang Mach E Thermal Management system pictorial}

 

[Balke]

Maybe someone should point out the pictorial diagram to these alleged engineers that the PTC is indeed a ~part~ of the HVB thermal management system, while it also keeps the cabin warm, depending on the position of the diverter valve (3) SMH!

I am going to send to the service guy. Every turn I take I just run into a wall. I have asked to talk to someone else but I just keep getting shut down, he keeps saying I have talked to X Y Z and they said no. So I am at the point now where I just want the truck back. If they say it has nothing to do with HVB I will just need it in writing and be on my way with a space heater plugged in for heat.

 

[bc1]

Maybe someone should point out the pictorial diagram to these alleged engineers that the PTC is indeed a ~part~ of the HVB thermal management system, while it also keeps the cabin warm, depending on the position of the diverter valve (3) SMH!

I'm following this, Noel. Do you have such a diagram for the 25 Flash with heat pump? I'm wondering if I have a radiator with coolant tank in the frunk area along with the electric heating strips? Thanks. Not trying to hijack this thread.

 

[ZSC100]

All of this is quite unfortunate if you actually are dependent on your truck for your livelihood (I forget if you have a loaner or not). All dealers and service depts are different, but if there is a way you can find an "EV guy" at this dealer to help advocate for you that will definitly help.

We need to get this particular instance of this case on @Ford Motor Company 's radar as the next steps start to invovle EV specific lemon law, but hopefully we don't have to go there. You think dealing with FMC is crazy so far wait till you see how robotically ignorant they are with lemon law buybacks. Hint: it is a capatilistic machine that has zero consideration for human emotion or life.

What you are dealing with right now is the tip of the iceberg which is the procedural nightmare meant to limit Ford's liability on all fronts. It's a natural MO that happens in all large companies that get compartmentalized beyond comprehension and it requires intense time and effort on your part to navigate and battle. Be thankful that you now have the internet and a community to guide you through this BS. I can't imagine dealing with this kind of stuff pre-internet.

Where FMC statistically wins is when you give up and just pay for the repair. This happens more than you think and happens almost 100% of the time with businesses who depend on the trucks for business. It's cheaper for them to just write off a few thousand $$ than to be without a fleet truck for even a few days. This is why the "system" is setup to deny, deny, deny, by default. It's analgous to fishing, statistically owners will immediately accept what they are told, and statistically if they are told many times, by many people, they will eventually accept and pay.

Hang in there, and continue to gather technical evidence and push the fact that this failure has the ability to negatively affect the health of the HV battery and the performance of the EV drivetrain. This is fact, that eventually (if you are persistant enough) will legally give you the WIN.

 

[Balke]

All of this is quite unfortunate if you actually are dependent on your truck for your livelihood (I forget if you have a loaner or not). All dealers and service depts are different, but if there is a way you can find an "EV guy" at this dealer to help advocate for you that will definitly help.

We need to get this particular instance of this case on @Ford Motor Company 's radar as the next steps start to invovle EV specific lemon law, but hopefully we don't have to go there. You think dealing with FMC is crazy so far wait till you see how robotically ignorant they are with lemon law buybacks. Hint: it is a capatilistic machine that has zero consideration for human emotion or life.

What you are dealing with right now is the tip of the iceberg which is the procedural nightmare meant to limit Ford's liability on all fronts. It's a natural MO that happens in all large companies that get compartmentalized beyond comprehension and it requires intense time and effort on your part to navigate and battle. Be thankful that you now have the internet and a community to guide you through this BS. I can't imagine dealing with this kind of stuff pre-internet.

Where FMC statistically wins is when you give up and just pay for the repair. This happens more than you think and happens almost 100% of the time with businesses who depend on the trucks for business. It's cheaper for them to just write off a few thousand $$ than to be without a fleet truck for even a few days. This is why the "system" is setup to deny, deny, deny, by default. It's analgous to fishing, statistically owners will immediately accept what they are told, and statistically if they are told many times, by many people, they will eventually accept and pay.

Hang in there, and continue to gather technical evidence and push the fact that this failure has the ability to negatively affect the health of the HV battery and the performance of the EV drivetrain. This is fact, that eventually (if you are persistant enough) will legally give you the WIN.

Your optimism has come at the right time. I was about to my breaking pointI, use my truck daily for work but have a backup van I am using. I do not think this dealership is going to help me out unfortunately. I also have them looking at a parking sensor that was under warranty that was supposed to get fixed and never worked right looked at, a state inspection and wiper blades put on bc why the hell not while its there. I asked if that was done and they said yes but I need to make sure they looked into the sensor. He seemed surprised that I wasnt giving him the go ahead to repair ptc heater. I can be pretty stubborn at times and really dig into things that arent worth my time but I feel are the right thing to do, this being one of them. Im going to make sure Ford does the right thing.

 

[TaxmanHog]

I'm following this, Noel. Do you have such a diagram for the 25 Flash with heat pump?

No, and to be clear for all, the diagram in my post is actually for the Ford MME not the Lightning, but given the FORD dna, they are most likely similar, though I think the positioning of the PTC is likely slightly different in the Lightning, but otherwise works in a similar fashion.

 

[The Weatherman]

I suggest the OP find a dealer that will recognize the conclusion of the BEV team and everyone here. I certainly would not reward the current dealer for not supporting me.

If it’s up to the dealer to decide what is and isn’t warranty work find one that does recognize it.

My 0.02$ worth.

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