Ford Skunkworks (EVDC) visit - behind the scenes look & report

[dww]

In this case they are hyping future product so you won’t buy an R2 or other EV before their vehicle comes to market. Tesla is very strict about the Osborne effect and never talks about new models that replace old ones prior to being on sale or imminent within a few weeks.

No need to do that when China is producing and delivering dream spec EVs right now. 7 min 0-100 charging? yep. MW flash chargers? yep. No cold performance loss? yep. No degradation? yep. Tesla level point to point ADAS, yep? Cheap? yep. How long after Europe gets it does the US? Dream EVs exist now, just not here.

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[Siarpo]

Imagine supporting China

 

[SomeStupidDriver]

Unless Ford begins selling directly there is no point in talking about a "$30k" truck because the dealers will never allow it to be sold at that price.

 

[electricpig]

Imagine supporting China

Have you looked where nearly every consumer item you buy is made?

 

[Athrun88]

On one hand, Ford is bashing Chinese cars and wailing about them entering the NA market. Otherhand, Ford is partnering with Geely in Spain to shore up their European marketshare. Seems like Geely will be taking over a line in a plant in Spain to produce EVs for Ford.

Current geopolitical climate doesn't allow for this at the moment; but it would be beneficial for all if, for example, Ford partnered with BYD on a joint venure where BYD brings the batteries/software and Ford brings the platform. Best comprimise where the consumer wins in the sense that we get a great overall product and Ford/BYD wins in the long run in winning market share in the EV/EREV space. Protectionism doesn't work when you have the overall inferior product, imo.

 

[El Duderino]

I am a little concerned about how much smaller the rear door opening looks versus the front.

Holding up hope based on early press about having more interior room than a Rav4.

 

[JayF]

but it would be beneficial for all if, for example, Ford partnered with BYD on a joint venure where BYD brings the batteries/software and Ford brings the platform

As someone in the software industry, I'd rather software that was developed domestically (or under domestic supervision), from Europe, or open source. I don't want a Chinese company having control over the software in my car -- same reason I won't install TikTok.

You can basically assume that China's government gets full access to anything one of those cars knows -- which would include your location, driving habits, and even vices (did you go to a strip club?). I'm not suggesting that US doesn't do similar things (we do; we just launder the legality of it through data brokers) -- but I'd at least, for now, rather my own government have that information than a foreign one.

 

[Athrun88]

As someone in the software industry, I'd rather software that was developed domestically (or under domestic supervision), from Europe, or open source. I don't want a Chinese company having control over the software in my car -- same reason I won't install TikTok.

You can basically assume that China's government gets full access to anything one of those cars knows -- which would include your location, driving habits, and even vices (did you go to a strip club?). I'm not suggesting that US doesn't do similar things (we do; we just launder the legality of it through data brokers) -- but I'd at least, for now, rather my own government have that information than a foreign one.

Please do not take this as me being an ass, maybe playing devil's advocate for the purposes of a discussion.

Could you clear up why it matters what government or entity has your information? You said it yourself, western governments for sure do similar things (paraphrased), so why does it matter if China, USA, EU, Google, Amazon, or any number of data brokers have your personal information? From an end-user perspective, as long as it works, it works, no?

As of right now, even our trucks track my location, driving habits, and any number of other variables that Ford deems important to either themselves or to be packaged and sold. Though I agree that if we could have full agency over our data, I would be in agreement with that, but that is not the reality we live in right now.

Again, not trying to be difficult, but I personally don't understand the need for drawing these arbitray lines for the sake of national pride. Imagine if scientists and researchers kept their work protected and didn't open it up for public benefit. Would your opinion change if the software derived from China (or other currently adversarial country) was open source despite the point of origin?

 

[JayF]

Could you clear up why it matters what government or entity has your information? You said it yourself, western governments for sure do similar things (paraphrased), so why does it matter if China, USA, EU, Google, Amazon, or any number of data brokers have your personal information? From an end-user perspective, as long as it works, it works, no?

Just a reflection of personal values. I think privacy is it's own goal; without needing any specific reason to want to be private. I don't want my own country to do as much with data collection as it does; and I can work politically to fix that -- I have no ability, knowledge, or anything that would allow me to control what Chinese companies would do with my data.

(Realistically: do I think you can escape it? Probably not; but I'm not willing to give up; and I'll vote with my dollars where reasonably possible.)

I'll note I've been working as a software developer in open source projects, with a focus on security -- this is one of those places where the more you know, the scarier the reality is. This sorta shapes my opinions about technology and wanting them to be open *and controlled by me*. You can't always get that everywhere anymore though, sadly. (Part of why I picked the F-150 Lightning is that there's already a somewhat healthy software "hacking" community via forscan and the like -- It gives me hope that I may be able to fully free my truck from big brother one day.)

 

[DeluxeStang]

Something interesting I noticed, Ford released this EV race truck a while back. Based on how t3 was described, this truck was basically previewing the t3 design in racing form. But I theorized at the time that some of the styling cues and shapes could make their way over to the skunk truck. Check out these two front ends side by side.

Obviously the skunktruck is covered, and we can't make out exact details. But we can make out the general shapes, proportions, and some of the lines. Notice the shorter hood, the angle as it slopes down near the front fascia. But also the crease lines on the front end which you can see running all the way across and into the lines of the front fenders. It's what you would get if you took that race truck, toned it down into a production vehicle, and maybe tweaked some of the shakes to make it look more attractive.

 

[Athrun88]

Just a reflection of personal values. I think privacy is it's own goal; without needing any specific reason to want to be private. I don't want my own country to do as much with data collection as it does; and I can work politically to fix that -- I have no ability, knowledge, or anything that would allow me to control what Chinese companies would do with my data.

(Realistically: do I think you can escape it? Probably not; but I'm not willing to give up; and I'll vote with my dollars where reasonably possible.)

I'll note I've been working as a software developer in open source projects, with a focus on security -- this is one of those places where the more you know, the scarier the reality is. This sorta shapes my opinions about technology and wanting them to be open *and controlled by me*. You can't always get that everywhere anymore though, sadly. (Part of why I picked the F-150 Lightning is that there's already a somewhat healthy software "hacking" community via forscan and the like -- It gives me hope that I may be able to fully free my truck from big brother one day.)

That's all fair and I completely agree with. I feel that people who live and breathe software/security are the ones who do not go for IoT devices or are very cautious; whereas the layperson is usually all for it.

Keep fighting the good fight!

 

[Siarpo]

Have you looked where nearly every consumer item you buy is made?

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/foton-trucks.36741/

 

[gletob]

Imagine supporting China

Imagine being protectionist to the point where you allow your national auto industry to stagnate to the point where it will be irrelevant internationally. They'll have to restrict competition at that point as we'll be the only suckers left forced to buy them over better, cheaper options.

It doesn't take much to imagine, as that's where we're headed in my opinion.

Ford and GM should be given an ultimatum. Make cheap, good EVs, or face the Chinese EVs entering the American market. You can be protectionist in objection to human rights violations/labor conditions/government subsidization, but at this point our companies don't seem interested or committed to any long-term improvement. This is thanks to the perverse incentives they have to flip-flop to the political winds, and it culminates in waste at the expense of customers and taxpayers and (long-term) shareholders. Ford is talking a good talk with this effort detailed, but until it's delivered it's just like Chinese Tofu Dreg development. A lot of talk, and a lot of investment allegedly, with a mixed outlook for results.

Also, regarding the conversation about Chinese automakers having my data. I don't want either government to have data from my car, but Bejing is a lot further away and I'm not subject to their jurisdiction anyway, so in a lose/lose scenario, I'd prefer the Chinese equivalent of the NSA to have my data than the actual NSA, who then hands it over to the rest of government through some kangaroo FISA court "lawfully" (but arguably unconstitutionally) without warrants.

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