How do you charge a Lightning with a Gen2, 80amp, Tesla dumb wall charger?

[Harman023]

Are you sure your truck has the dual rectifiers to handle 80 amps? I thought that was a 22,23 feature. Specs say 80 amp charging was only available on 131 Kw batteries as a fleet option.

Sponsored

 

[tls]

There's been a lot of misinformation about this floating around. I'm going to try to correct it and leave you with the facts.

1) The idea that somehow if you have a single onboard charger Lightning limited to 48A you cannot charge at a J1772 EVSE offering 80A is just wrong. Your truck will charge just fine at 48A on such an EVSE.

2) There is nothing special about TeslaTap brand adapters vs. any other adapter from a reputable manufacturer (like the A2Z you mentioned) Some older Tesla EVSEs, when configured with certain DIP switch settings, speak a different protocol (J2411) for about 10 seconds after the car is connected, then switch to standard J1772. This causes a confusing delay before charging that used to make drivers shoot themselves in the foot by yanking the charge handle back out, pushing the stop button, etc; all the good quality adapters now have a little pull-down circuit in them that tricks the EVSE into thinking the car is already connected while you are plugging in the handle, avoiding this. FWIW I have seen multiple TeslaTap brand adapters fail because their enclosure was not adequately sealed and the bypass circuit was damaged by moisture.

Some Gen2 Tesla Wall Connectors have internal DIP switches that can be set to start out right away in J1772 rather than J2411. You could look for it, if this is a Gen2 wall connector.

3) J1772 uses a square-wave signal on the "pilot" wire to indicate the capability of the charger. The very oldest (Gen1) Tesla Wall Connectors emitted a noisy ("dirty") pilot signal and some cars just will not accept it. If you dig back through this forum and the Mach E forum you will see several of us experimented with it for months and bad mixed results with the wall connector's maximum charge rate switches set to different values. Nobody got it to work at 80A (100A circuit) or 72A (90A circuit).

The bottom line is that all Tesla Wall Connectors are intended to be fully capable of charging standard J1772 cars but there are some minor quirks (like the need for the adapter to have a "bypass circuit" or the user to wait patiently after plugging in - your A2Z adapter has the bypass circuit) and the very very oldest ("Gen1") wall connectors are unreliable with Ford vehicles, particularly if set to higher max current settings, because the wall connector's pilot signal is noisy. If you have a newer Lightning with only 48A onboard charger, you may be able to set even one of those so it works.

 

[Dspade]

Thank you. I will try it again and wait longer. Yes this is a Gen2. Approximately 10 yrs old. Does it help if I open it up and change Dip settings? If so, where are those instructions? And, will that disable the ability to charge Tesla vehicles? If so that isn’t an option.
I appreciate all the attention to this question; however, there’s a lot of stuff being thrown out there and this becomes confusing.

 

[RickLightning]

There's been a lot of misinformation about this floating around. I'm going to try to correct it and leave you with the facts.

1) The idea that somehow if you have a single onboard charger Lightning limited to 48A you cannot charge at a J1772 EVSE offering 80A is just wrong. Your truck will charge just fine at 48A on such an EVSE.

2) There is nothing special about TeslaTap brand adapters vs. any other adapter from a reputable manufacturer (like the A2Z you mentioned) Some older Tesla EVSEs, when configured with certain DIP switch settings, speak a different protocol (J2411) for about 10 seconds after the car is connected, then switch to standard J1772. This causes a confusing delay before charging that used to make drivers shoot themselves in the foot by yanking the charge handle back out, pushing the stop button, etc; all the good quality adapters now have a little pull-down circuit in them that tricks the EVSE into thinking the car is already connected while you are plugging in the handle, avoiding this. FWIW I have seen multiple TeslaTap brand adapters fail because their enclosure was not adequately sealed and the bypass circuit was damaged by moisture.

Some Gen2 Tesla Wall Connectors have internal DIP switches that can be set to start out right away in J1772 rather than J2411. You could look for it, if this is a Gen2 wall connector.

3) J1772 uses a square-wave signal on the "pilot" wire to indicate the capability of the charger. The very oldest (Gen1) Tesla Wall Connectors emitted a noisy ("dirty") pilot signal and some cars just will not accept it. If you dig back through this forum and the Mach E forum you will see several of us experimented with it for months and bad mixed results with the wall connector's maximum charge rate switches set to different values. Nobody got it to work at 80A (100A circuit) or 72A (90A circuit).

The bottom line is that all Tesla Wall Connectors are intended to be fully capable of charging standard J1772 cars but there are some minor quirks (like the need for the adapter to have a "bypass circuit" or the user to wait patiently after plugging in - your A2Z adapter has the bypass circuit) and the very very oldest ("Gen1") wall connectors are unreliable with Ford vehicles, particularly if set to higher max current settings, because the wall connector's pilot signal is noisy. If you have a newer Lightning with only 48A onboard charger, you may be able to set even one of those so it works.

So in short, those of us that don't have every old generation of Tesla charger memorized did get it right - you need to slow down a Tesla Gen 1 charger sometimes, except we confused that with Gen 2. Got it.

 

[RickLightning]

Thank you. I will try it again and wait longer. Yes this is a Gen2. Approximately 10 yrs old. Does it help if I open it up and change Dip settings? If so, where are those instructions? And, will that disable the ability to charge Tesla vehicles? If so that isn’t an option.
I appreciate all the attention to this question; however, there’s a lot of stuff being thrown out there and this becomes confusing.

No change in charging speed makes any vehicle unable to charge. If a Tesla was equipped to charge at 80amps, and you set a charger to 48amps, it would charge fine - at 48amps.

 

[tls]

So in short, those of us that don't have every old generation of Tesla charger memorized did get it right - you need to slow down a Tesla Gen 1 charger sometimes, except we confused that with Gen 2. Got it.

Well, no, not really, not from my point of view at least. Flipping DIP switches on a Gen1 HPWC might get the OP somewhere but not because "slowing down" EVSEs to match vehicles is a thing.

The Gen1 Tesla EVSE may or may not work with a Ford vehicle at any speed due to its dirty pilot waveform. Playing around with the max current DIP switches might get you somewhere but nobody has ever reported reliable success that I can find. At most, some of us experimenting had less trouble at very low settings like 24A, and I had a theory - others here disagree - that there might also be an issue with different hardware revisions swapping the 24A DIP switch setting with the one for one of the higher rates.

But it's just not the case, as others have pointed out, that a J1772 EVSE could need to be "slowed down" to match a vehicle with a low maximum amperage like the 48A that is now commonplace. What's up with the Gen1 Tesla units is that they put out a dirty control signal that some newer J1772 vehicles won't accept, or misinterpret. Really other than to charge older Tesla vehicles they don't have much use, which is a shame, because the 80A contactors etc. in them are quite expensive to source.

 

[tls]

Thank you. I will try it again and wait longer. Yes this is a Gen2. Approximately 10 yrs old. Does it help if I open it up and change Dip settings? If so, where are those instructions? And, will that disable the ability to charge Tesla vehicles? If so that isn’t an option.
I appreciate all the attention to this question; however, there’s a lot of stuff being thrown out there and this becomes confusing.

If it is in fact a Gen2 HPWC (current selection via a rotary selector not DIP switches is a sure way to tell, in my experience - note they did sell silver-colored Gen2 units and swappable skins so the Gen1 and Gen2 can look a lot alike externally) I believe you want to put DIP switch #2 in the down position to select "Legacy" mode, which should be plain J1772 signaling as soon as you plug in. I'm a little skeptical this will solve your problem though as the A2Z adapter you are using should have the bypass circuitry to make this unnecessary. And I have 5 of these in use personally and have never had to change that setting even though I bought 4 of them second-hand. It will not impair your ability to charge Tesla vehicles no matter how it's set.

You are putting the adapter onto the charge cord, locking it with the locking slider, then inserting the charge handle, with the adapter locked in place, into the car's charge port, yeah? Always do it in that order.

Here is the North American gen2 installation manual with all the settings. Gen2 uses a rotary selector for max current, not DIP switches. It can be a little hard to see what it's set to and I guess I would check that it is not on "test" or "follower" mode.
https://digitalassets.tesla.com/tes.../gen-2-wall-connector-installation-manual.pdf

 

[tls]

Oh, one more thing - when you open up the unit to check the settings, be careful with the original screws; I have never found a good source for replacement stainless screws with the integral rubber gasket under the head in the required size. If you lose or have lost one, be sure to use a stainless replacement, and keep some permatex RTV or similar handy and put just a dab under the head (NOT on the threads) before tightening, would be my recommendation. These units are very well weatherproofed when assembled just so - there is a lonely old Gen1 on a post at Killington ski area that has been sitting exposed to the weather for at least 11 years and still works great - but you would not want water in there under any circumstances.

 

[Dspade]

Alright. Got my 48amp Grizzley hooked up and it’s charging like a champ. I then parked in front of my Gen2 Tesla Charger, attached the A2Z adapter to the cord and waited a minute and then plugged in to my Flash. It fired right up but is only charging at 9.8 KW. I’m assuming because I’m already at 80% when I started charging. I’ll try again Monday and if it’s ok, then this is fare well. Thanks for all your help. /DS

 

[B177y]

Alright. Got my 48amp Grizzley hooked up and it’s charging like a champ. I then parked in front of my Gen2 Tesla Charger, attached the A2Z adapter to the cord and waited a minute and then plugged in to my Flash. It fired right up but is only charging at 9.8 KW. I’m assuming because I’m already at 80% when I started charging. I’ll try again Monday and if it’s ok, then this is fare well. Thanks for all your help. /DS

Where are you measuring the 9.8kW from? Ford app?

If measuring from the Ford app, that 9.8kW is what is going into the battery after wiring and charger losses. Assuming you're getting the full 48 amps from the Tesla EVSE, that's about 15% loss if my math is correct. Normally 10% loss is expected or 10.4kW into the battery on a 48 amp EVSE.

Also, charging speed on level 2 doesn't slow until you hit 98%-99% SOC, it's not like level 3 that slows at 80%.

 

[Dspade]

Where are you measuring the 9.8kW from? Ford app?

If measuring from the Ford app, that 9.8kW is what is going into the battery after wiring and charger losses. Assuming you're getting the full 48 amps from the Tesla EVSE, that's about 15% loss if my math is correct. Normally 10% loss is expected or 10.4kW into the battery on a 48 amp EVSE.

Also, charging speed on level 2 doesn't slow until you hit 98%-99% SOC, it's not like level 3 that slows at 80%.

Yes Ford app

 

[RickLightning]

Alright. Got my 48amp Grizzley hooked up and it’s charging like a champ. I then parked in front of my Gen2 Tesla Charger, attached the A2Z adapter to the cord and waited a minute and then plugged in to my Flash. It fired right up but is only charging at 9.8 KW. I’m assuming because I’m already at 80% when I started charging. I’ll try again Monday and if it’s ok, then this is fare well. Thanks for all your help. /DS

Grizzl-E.

There is no speed reduction on level 2. Explanation given is correct.

 

[chl]

There's been a lot of misinformation about this floating around. I'm going to try to correct it and leave you with the facts.

1) The idea that somehow if you have a single onboard charger Lightning limited to 48A you cannot charge at a J1772 EVSE offering 80A is just wrong. Your truck will charge just fine at 48A on such an EVSE.

2) There is nothing special about TeslaTap brand adapters vs. any other adapter from a reputable manufacturer (like the A2Z you mentioned) Some older Tesla EVSEs, when configured with certain DIP switch settings, speak a different protocol (J2411) for about 10 seconds after the car is connected, then switch to standard J1772. This causes a confusing delay before charging that used to make drivers shoot themselves in the foot by yanking the charge handle back out, pushing the stop button, etc; all the good quality adapters now have a little pull-down circuit in them that tricks the EVSE into thinking the car is already connected while you are plugging in the handle, avoiding this. FWIW I have seen multiple TeslaTap brand adapters fail because their enclosure was not adequately sealed and the bypass circuit was damaged by moisture.

Some Gen2 Tesla Wall Connectors have internal DIP switches that can be set to start out right away in J1772 rather than J2411. You could look for it, if this is a Gen2 wall connector.

3) J1772 uses a square-wave signal on the "pilot" wire to indicate the capability of the charger. The very oldest (Gen1) Tesla Wall Connectors emitted a noisy ("dirty") pilot signal and some cars just will not accept it. If you dig back through this forum and the Mach E forum you will see several of us experimented with it for months and bad mixed results with the wall connector's maximum charge rate switches set to different values. Nobody got it to work at 80A (100A circuit) or 72A (90A circuit).

The bottom line is that all Tesla Wall Connectors are intended to be fully capable of charging standard J1772 cars but there are some minor quirks (like the need for the adapter to have a "bypass circuit" or the user to wait patiently after plugging in - your A2Z adapter has the bypass circuit) and the very very oldest ("Gen1") wall connectors are unreliable with Ford vehicles, particularly if set to higher max current settings, because the wall connector's pilot signal is noisy. If you have a newer Lightning with only 48A onboard charger, you may be able to set even one of those so it works.

You nailed it!

 

[chl]

I sometimes see around 41A throughput with my FCSP an 80A capable EVSE (wired for 80A but the truck will only ask for a max of 48A - I try to keep it at 32A for longer charging time which helps keep the 12v battery charged).

When set at 48A I often saw between 42A and 45A depending (on what? variables like temperature).

9.8kW is about 41A which should be adequate for a Flash battery depending on size - does it have the 123kWh usable capacity battery?

How high and how deeply do you need to charge it every day?

I keep my 2023 Pro at a max of 85% to 95%, and usually don't go below 70%

Lots of posts around about trying to use an old Tesla charger with a Lightning as I recall...similar issues to what you saw.

Murphy's Law of free stuff at play...

 

[Trueno]

I will input my grain of experience charging my truck. When I go visit my best friend that lives around 1.5 hours away, he always makes me charge my truck back to almost 100%.
He drives a Tesla Model 3. The first time we plugged my truck to His Tesla charger we got an error. We have to use the adapter of course. After scratching our heads as to why it wasn’t charging, we realized we had the wrong adapter.

There’s one adapter for the fast charging like Tesla Superchargers, and then you have the adapter for home charging stations. I’m not saying this is the issue you are experiencing, just worth looking into it.

I have a ChargePoint charger in my garage and set up to 40 amps in the truck settings. So far it has worked flawless.

Sponsored