Does anyone have Lightning cold weather preconditioning detail information?

[Firestop]

Saturday morning test, involved no pre-conditioning, just using remote start, ran it for 20 minutes with ambient temp of about 54º, last night my range was 270 @ 90% and it was much colder then compared to this morning..... yet still dropped 3 miles.

Substantially different power consumption for a remote start compared to preconditioning, peak draw was just a hair under 9kw, it stepped down aggressively by the minute, by the eight minute it was hovering around 2kw until the 20 minute session was finished and truck shutdown. Note that during pre-conditioning the cabin heating continues to run past the target departure time. Only 1.28 kWh was consumed from shore power, in my market that's worth 35 cents.

And most importantly, the steering wheel was warm.

I think I'll reserve "pre-conditioning" for battery health when it's really cold, otherwise remote start for 10 minutes should be sufficient in most cases.

Great data @TaxmanHog , it’s confirming what I think I’m beginning to see and what I think @RickLightning had recommended. It will be interesting to see what data @Akbrian collects with the low temps he is experiencing. It would be great to ID the appropriate sweet spot temp where one gets real benefits of Preconditioning…..

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[Akbrian]

Great data @TaxmanHog , it’s confirming what I think I’m beginning to see and what I think @RickLightning had recommended. It will be interesting to see what data @Akbrian collects with the low temps he is experiencing. It would be great to ID the appropriate sweet spot temp where one gets real benefits of Preconditioning…..

I don’t know about ideal precondition temp but here is what I found so far. Plugged with departure time set 10 degrees outside. My HVB is 55degrees when I get in.
last night put my truck to bed plugged in and battery temp was 35 degrees and dropping about 10 degrees perhour putting around town. When I got in this morning 14 hours later battery was 40 degrees OAT 20 degrees. So the truck is trying to heat the battery even without precondition set just not to full temp. While driving I noticed to battery heater would turn on for a bit 7kw and then stop. Definitely not enough to keep battery warm.

 

[Capertrj]

This is very interesting. I had thought the truck wanted to maintain the battery between 60-80 degrees. But based on everyone’s data the battery can get very cold. Only 1000 miles in but I feel the range estimate is very conservative. Example: 55 mile trip (maybe 65% 65mph 35% 30-40 mph in New England) my range drops 48 miles during the trip but went 55. That trip I get anywhere from 2.0-2.3.

I’ve had luck with preconditioning. Same route as above my trip has shown like 96% driving, 3% external temp, 1% accessories. Truck seems to be insulated very well so the preconditioning cabin heat lasts for duration with help from seat heater and steering wheel warmer (it’s not a heater, doesn’t get hot). I had figured the heat generation of driving was warming the battery.

thanks to you all for doing some in depth investigating, very interesting!

 

[Beans]

What are everyone's thoughts on charging to warm the battery? I charge to 80% in my garage, and since setting a one-time precondition isn't the easiest in the app, I wonder if there's value in hitting "Charge to 100%" a little while before I leave. Would this heat the battery similar to preconditioning?

 

[p52Ranch]

What are everyone's thoughts on charging to warm the battery? I charge to 80% in my garage, and since setting a one-time precondition isn't the easiest in the app, I wonder if there's value in hitting "Charge to 100%" a little while before I leave. Would this heat the battery similar to preconditioning?

Good question. It probably depends on the L2 KWH charge rate. It has already been shown that L1 charging when it is cold may not supply the power to even condition the battery for charging.

Would L2 charging above 30 amps warm the batteries significantly above ambient? The higher the rate the more heat generated.

 

[TaxmanHog]

What are everyone's thoughts on charging to warm the battery? I charge to 80% in my garage, and since setting a one-time precondition isn't the easiest in the app, I wonder if there's value in hitting "Charge to 100%" a little while before I leave. Would this heat the battery similar to preconditioning?

Interesting angle, I've thought about that recently, one method was to delay my charging window to a narrow time frame to complete the charge session in the morning of my daily driving routine. In contrast to charging immediately at the end of drive day.

The tricky part is to understand the charging curve as the SOC goes from xx% to desired SOC (90% to 100%).

I have already read about long distance commuters having a restless night wondering if the charge session will kick off in time to have the battery at a desired SOC, the computer does estimate the time needed, but it is often conservative, it might be geared to a 32 or 40 amp charge rate instead of the 74-80 amps the FCSP can provide.

Last week I tinkered with charging schedule that would begin after 2 am to be done by the time we leave the house at 8:15 am, IIRC the algorithm suggested I did not have sufficient time in concert with the scheduled departure time.

Now that I have generally scrapped the departure time schedule (only to be used ad hoc), maybe the last minute charging scheme would work better including a 10 minute remote start to warm up just the cabin.

I have an old OBD2 data gathering device maybe I can get system temps, or one of the other guys with the wireless unit could give this experiment a run and see what the real temps at the battery are.

BTW, both drive motors oil lubrication system have a glycol cooler interfaces, maybe it's integrated down stream of the traction battery heating/cooling loop?

 

[RedLightning86]

I will have my 23 Lariat ER soon and I too am curious about pre conditioning the battery in cold weather. When I'm at home and plugged in, I will set the charger to pre condition before work, but while at work, it will be in a parking lot in 20 degree Fahrenheit for 10 hours without being plugged in. Should I just hit remote start 10 minutes prior to leaving the job? My job is a 10 minute drive throughthe city. I'm not quite sure how this works.

Thanks for any replies.

Whether or not it helps range, remote start makes the cab SO nice to get in when it's cold here in Wisconsin! I got the Lariat for 2 reasons: Blue Cruise, and heated steering wheel. Worth every penny of it to my aging hands!

 

[TaxmanHog]

Whether or not it helps range, remote start makes the cab SO nice to get in when it's cold here in Wisconsin! I got the Lariat for 2 reasons: Blue Cruise, and heated steering wheel. Worth every penny of it to my aging hands!

AMEN 1000%

The one major mistake I made in life was trading in my 2008 F150 Harley edition with all the creature comforts for a 2012 F250 XLT PSD, gone were heated leather seats and at that time heated steering was not thing IIRC. I drove the Powerstroke for 10 years kicking myself in the ass for being so cheap.

 

[Firestop]

FWIW, some data.

Last night, I set a Departure Time of 0620 hrs for this morning (truck parked outside) after it finished charging to 90% at 2119 hrs.

Unfortunately, CarScanner would not connect to to my OBDLink CX to monitor my truck overnight since it goes to sleep; I missed force powering the OBD up this morning prior to the start of Preconditioning, but I did record data during the last 15 min of the preconditioning and the subsequent drive.

I observed my Battery Temp at 2330 hrs last night to be 32.8 degF…..a little over 2 hrs following completion of the charge session (FCSP set to 240V/80A).

Notes of interest. I have found two PIDs related to Coolant Temperature.. One constantly reads 59 degF regardless of when observed…..it never changes. The other I’m monitoring achieves temps into the mid to upper s at times…..I’m suspecting this PID is taking readings of the coolant loop serving the battery pack…not sure what the other is monitoring……

I preset the truck environmental controls last night to Auto #1 @ 68 degF, Seat Heat @ #3, Steering Wheel Heat ON. When I got in my truck to start driving, I found the environmental controls set to Auto OFF @ 68 degF (Defrost ON - Fan @#3), Seat Heat @ #3 (ON), Steering Wheel Heat ON - No heat.
I manually returned the environmental controls to my presets before the drive; the Steering Wheel Heat never activated.

0619 hrs - Preconditioning in Progress

0625 hr - Preconditioning Completed & Disconnected from FCSP - Before Drive

0647 hrs - 22 mins into the Drive - 45 mph

0712 - Parked at End of Drive

 

[p52Ranch]

FWIW, some data.

Last night, I set a Departure Time of 0620 hrs for this morning (truck parked outside) after it finished charging to 90% at 2119 hrs.

Unfortunately, CarScanner would not connect to to my OBDLink CX to monitor my truck overnight since it goes to sleep; I missed force powering the OBD up this morning prior to the start of Preconditioning, but I did record data during the last 15 min of the preconditioning and the subsequent drive.

I observed my Battery Temp at 2330 hrs last night to be 32.8 degF…..a little over 2 hrs following completion of the charge session (FCSP set to 240V/80A).

Notes of interest. I have found two PIDs related to Coolant Temperature.. One constantly reads 59 degF regardless of when observed…..it never changes. The other I’m monitoring achieves temps into the mid to upper s at times…..I’m suspecting this PID is taking readings of the coolant loop serving the battery pack…not sure what the other is monitoring……

I preset the truck environmental controls last night to Auto #1 @ 68 degF, Seat Heat @ #3, Steering Wheel Heat ON. When I got in my truck to start driving, I found the environmental controls set to Auto OFF @ 68 degF (Defrost ON - Fan @#3), Seat Heat @ #3 (ON), Steering Wheel Heat ON - No heat.
I manually returned the environmental controls to my presets before the drive; the Steering Wheel Heat never activated.

0619 hrs - Preconditioning in Progress

0625 hr - Preconditioning Completed & Disconnected from FCSP - Before Drive

0647 hrs - 22 mins into the Drive - 45 mph

0712 - Parked at End of Drive

Outstanding information. It is good to see the HVB temperature holding up during your drive.

What is with the Interior temperature reading? Is that actually a reading of a heading element temperature? Certainly the cabin isn't at 96 degrees is it?

 

[Firestop]

Outstanding information. It is good to see the HVB temperature holding up during your drive.

What is with the Interior temperature reading? Is that actually a reading of a heading element temperature? Certainly the cabin isn't at 96 degrees is it?

CarScanner said the IT was 98.8 degF at the end of preconditioning. Don’t know the specific location of the IT reading, I just picked one of the available interior temp PIDs.

I will say the Defrost blower was cranking and it was uncomfortably hot when I got into the truck….my wife loved it The temp did cool, as noted on the subsequent screenshots, with the Defrost OFF as the drive progressed.

I have a 120+ mi. mostly ~69 mph freeway drive this afternoon that I will not preconditioning for, so I’ll be interested in see that data

 

[Akbrian]

Went back and looked at my charge ligs and temperatures. Preconditioning takes anywhere from 20-30kwh of power. It warms the battery and the cabin. I am not sure how haven’t found the PID for a battery heater yet. I found one called HVB coolant heater but that appears to be the climate heater not a HVB battery heater.

From the pro charger logs it does not appear that the battery heat Strategy includes monitoring temperature and heating throughout the night it only heats when preconditioning. And looking at the power consumption required for battery heat and continuous drop in battery temp while driving it does not appear allow heating of the battery when on battery power.

 

[TaxmanHog]

This morning I did a 30 minute session of charging, by clicking the charge to 100%
This was the SOC and Projected range at the time at 25º which has a MPK of 2.15

The truck was pulling full rate most of the time except a couple minutes where it slowed

At 20 minutes into the charging session I remote started the truck to warm the cabin.
SOC 2% [2.62kWh] Range enhanced by 20 miles [7.63 MPK] really is the enhanced capacity of the original 90% as the battery slowly warms though charging, MPK now 2.27

Resumed charging schedule, [stop charging] 8.22 kWh consumed including the 10 minutes cabin warming phase, FCSP data confirms Emporia

FP charging log, says I gained 3%, 24 miles

FP predicted range is now 278 at 2.28 MPK

Drive 1.7 miles to first stop,
81 minutes later as the truck has cooled off,
1% and 8 miles dropped from range. MPK=2.22

This evening at 5pm, we're back to same range and SOC with only 11 miles driven for the day in two local round trips, with cabin temps comfortable, at the moment temps are around 45º the projected MPK=2.16

 

[FirstF150InCasco]

Maybe I'm way overthinking this but It would seem that having a matrix of outside air temperature, car parking temperature (garage is warmer than OAT) and expected trip distance to determine when pre-conditioning is useful and when it is unnecessary.

Wow. Yes, you are seriously overthinking this.

Examples,
1. I need to feed the steers twice a day and usually take the Lightning, It is only a 2.5 mile round trip and takes 10 minutes. I start from the garage which is about 50F this time of year. I usually keep the HVAC off. I don't precondition as this would seem to be a waste of energy. HVAC off seems to yield about 2.8 miles per KwH. HVAC on seems to yield about half that when the OAT is 25F.

Remote start 3 minutes (try) to warm the cabin.

2. I drive to the feed store (25 miles away)or to Tulsa (40 miles away). The same garage starting conditions of 50F. HVAC will be used. Does the battery get warmed up sufficiently above 50F in the garage during pre-conditioning to improve the miles/KwH?

Don't believe so.

Is there a minimum travel distance to justify preconditioning?
Will a pre-conditioned battery maintain a higher internal temperature for the duration of a longer trip? E.G. if pre-conditioning were to raise the battery temperature to 70F will the truck attempt to maintain that same temperature? If you start with a cold battery will the truck attempt to raise the battery temperature to the same temperature as pre-conditioning?
What differences could be expected for the SR vs. ER pre-conditioning?

From the minute you pull out, the battery temp will start to drop. I found 40 - 45 degrees in 20 degree weather. DC fast charge, battery went to 95 degrees, dropped to 40 again by next stop.

You are way, way overthinking this, but knock yourself out.

[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
I agree. He's WAY overthinking this. It's as great truck. Just enjoy it.

 

[greenne]

What are everyone's thoughts on charging to warm the battery? I charge to 80% in my garage, and since setting a one-time precondition isn't the easiest in the app, I wonder if there's value in hitting "Charge to 100%" a little while before I leave. Would this heat the battery similar to preconditioning?

I guess my question is this--- if range is not a concern and I don't care that I'm "preconditioning"(departure time set)-- if there any advantage/disadvantage to plugging the truck in every night and leaving it plugged in prior to departure?

If I use the departure time in Ford Pass to start the truck a few minutes to go is there any more wear on the battery systems than if I were to leave the truck plugged in overnight and precondition off grid power?

For the blend of convenience and battery health I am driving down to 20% then charging to 90%...rinse/repeat vs topping off every night. Range not a concern for normal commute...can drive several days before I get down to 20%.

Thoughts?

Note: My commute is 18mi one way, so 36mi each day. With ER even in cold weather I'm able to go maybe 5-6 days before I reach 20%.

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