EREV - A Horsepower Math Problem?

[chriserx]

I'm tooling up to make the kit now! I'll send you half the profits.

Bet.

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[ZeusDriver]

My PHEV Niros were '19 and are '23 obnoxiously loud when cold but when warmed or at speed, I have to look at the tach to know the engine is running. Transitions are seamless. My '23 Powerboost was not nearly as smooth or quiet.

Software can overcome a lot but if you HAVE TO have ICE power up a hill, your regen will be limited coming down. Even now with my truck, I wonder if it disables trailer brakes downhill so that regen is maximized. The YouTube towing videos don't seem to address that.

Long before I bought the volt, I'd designed and built a prototype micro car PHEV, which gave me a lot of appreciation for NVH engineers. Even when only the electric motor was running, it was loud. The only noise deadening feature were the Lord mounts that the engine/motor subframe was on. It was like riding inside a cello. When the engine was running, earplugs were prudent, unless you were OK with not having a conversation for about a day afterwards.

 

[RickKeen]

The ICE engine in an EREV will have a differing load profile. Unlike an engine used directly for driving which has to handle peak HP demands AND steady state efficiency, the ICE engine in an EREV does not have to handle peak HP demands. It can be sized smaller, but it needs to be designed to run at whatever its full power rating is on a sustained basis.
Also, as mentioned, it might be the case that its not designed to keep up with the worse case headwind/uphill/total weight scenario. It could be that you can do short climbs at some peak HP from the electrics until the batteries are depleted. Then you would be constrained to the power available from the ICE engine flowing through the generator and drive motors. Might have to slow down on that uphill mountain slog, or take a break and let the battery charging catch up.

I also worry about the weight and resulting puny payload. Seems like worse of both worlds to have a larger, heavy battery AND a V6 engine to lug around. Plus you likely lose cargo space somewhere (goodbye frunk?)

 

[Mal106]

It makes you wonder how much do you reduce battery size to compensate for the weight and cost of the ICE and all it's necessary systems like gas, coolant, oil, generator etc. If Ram is using a 90 or so KWH battery I suspect it's going to be fairly porkey.

 

[sysop1]

Then you would be constrained to the power available from the ICE engine flowing through the generator and drive motors.

Once the battery is depleted the EREV will not continue to propel the vehicle. You will need to stop and let it charge for TBD minutes.

Once the usable battery reserve is gone, there’s nothing to absorb power spikes or respond instantly to load changes. The generator can’t ramp fast enough, isn’t powerful enough, and isn’t mechanically connected to the wheels. That’s why the vehicle has to stop and rebuild a minimum battery buffer before it can move again.

EREV isn't the answer to Ford's issues selling EV's, their legacy dealers and not improving and optimizing the sales model and service IS the issue. Lighting would have been OK if legacy dealers were not involved in the purchase / service process.

 

[Mal106]

I don't really know how it will work but, though it likely wouldn't need to, certainly the engine could power the truck without the battery. The ICE ioutput is throttlable, the generator or alternator is variable and the motor's output is variable. Software can do the decisions as to what does what and when.

It's going to be interesting if it's going 700 miles and you have to watch your gas and battery. My bet is that it will be like my Niro. 1000 to 1500 miles on a tank of gas and just hauling a big hunk of maintenance pain around 90% of the time.

 

[sysop1]

I don't really know how it will work

Well, your right about something!!

 

[P-38]

Once the battery is depleted the EREV will not continue to propel the vehicle. You will need to stop and let it charge for TBD minutes.

This makes no sense.

Easily programmed around, have a limit on the battery depletion, when that is reached limit the power output (just like my truck does as it gets low or cold) to what the generator can produce.

Volt owners don't have the issue you describe.

 

[Deleted member 21405]

This makes no sense.

Easily programmed around, have a limit on the battery depletion, when that is reached limit the power output (just like my truck does as it gets low or cold) to what the generator can produce.

Volt owners don't have the issue you describe.

Cuz a Volt generator can probably replenish the battery faster than the car is using the power. A truck towing a heavy load will likely be a very different story.

 

[Jseis]

To get the range & power Ford indicates (700 miles & say 12K-13K towing, probably uphill at 70 mph ) I suspect a turbo 4 or 6 tuned for optimum generator output for an unknown battery size (70 kWh?). But here’s the thing, I’d be back to burning $$$ gas & no access to the $.064/kWh power off the BPA grid. I currently roll at an equivalent 80 mpge & no way can an ICE hybrid do that. Mixing 25%-35% ICE efficiency with “gas-electric generation“ and expecting fab gas mil is nuts. 30 mpg maybe? But not 80 mpge.

And I’m right back to “regular dealer trips” for a generator!

A Maverick BEV? If it can pull 7,500 lbs. We are all in.

 

[P-38]

Cuz a Volt generator can probably replenish the battery faster than the car is using the power. A truck towing a heavy load will likely be a very different story.

So limit the power to match, just like our trucks already do. I had very little power left, surely a generator can keep up with that.

.

 

[Deleted member 21405]

So limit the power to match, just like our trucks already do. I had very little power left, surely a generator can keep up with that.

.

And that’s exactly what happened in 2 EREVs I owned. It limited you to about 50mph and very weak acceleration while the charge built up…which took a lot of time. A less than optimal solution in my experience. I wouldn’t do it again.

 

[sysop1]

To get the range & power Ford indicates (700 miles & say 12K-13K towing, probably uphill at 70 mph ) I suspect a turbo 4 or 6 tuned for optimum generator output for an unknown battery size (70 kWh?). But here’s the thing, I’d be back to burning $$$ gas & no access to the $.064/kWh power off the BPA grid. I currently roll at an equivalent 80 mpge & no way can an ICE hybrid do that. Mixing 25%-35% ICE efficiency with “gas-electric generation“ and expecting fab gas mil is nuts. 30 mpg maybe? But not 80 mpge.

And I’m right back to “regular dealer trips” for a generator!

A Maverick BEV? If it can pull 7,500 lbs. We are all in.

Ford is Forked with EREV! Their dealers screwed them over by holding on to an out dated sales model that impeded Lightning sales and generally all sales.

So limit the power to match, just like our trucks already do. I had very little power left, surely a generator can keep up with that.

.

And that’s exactly what happened in 2 EREVs I owned. It limited you to about 50mph and very weak acceleration while the charge built up…which took a lot of time. A less than optimal solution in my experience. I wouldn’t do it again.

Because they were cars that got 4+ miles/kWh.

 

[P-38]

So you could still move?

Was it annoying? Yes but you could still move. That was my point

 

[Deleted member 21405]

So you could still move?

Was it annoying? Yes but you could still move. That was my point

You could move. And it was great fun being the guy on an interstate screwing it all up. Dangerous at times. Never again for me

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