FCSP 40 vs 48? Stepwise EV Tap?

[chl]

I agree with @Maquis. I would push to get the installed wire capable of 60 amps and do a 50 amp breaker. Perfectly legal and if you upgrade your panel in the future you could install a 60-amp.

Sounds like they are using conduit so that would be THHN #6 wire instead of #8.

Also on the charger install credit, I didn’t get it at tax time because of credit limits when combined with the $7500 federal credit and the Alternative Minimum Tax. If you got the point of sale credit, I don’t know if it still applies. Many of us got hit with that in 2022. Of course you tax situation is different- so just a heads up.

Our income was low enough that we got both credits - took the $7500 at purchase time and the FCSP EVSE credit on the return - Alt min tax didn't apply to us.

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[chl]

FWIW, I could charge at 48A but I've got the EVSE set to 24A. Everything stays cooler and the truck is still ready before I am in the morning. (Admittedly, I'm usually only charging from about 40% to 80%, but do you really expect to use 85 kWh every day?) Unless your use case requires the fastest charge rate possible, even 40A is probably overkill.

Agreed.

Figure what your max daily drive mileage will be, assume for example 2mi/kWh then figure how many kWhs you need on a daily basis. If you drive mostly hwy, less mi/kWh. Maybe you know how many miles per kwH you already are getting on a daily basis?

Figure how many hours on the charger you will need to do this at 40A and 240V vs 48A and 240V.

Not a lot of time difference between 40A and 48A but it all depends on your mileage need.

Ex:
50 miles per day @ 2mi/kWh = 25kWh needed;
25kWh @ 40A (@240V =9.6kW) = 2.6hrs
25kWh @ 48A (@240V=11.5kW) about 2.2hrs

For a more accurate estimate, because the charging may be somewhere around 92% efficient (what I see in my 2023 Pro) use that number: 9.6kW becomes about 8.8kW and 11.5kW becomes about 10.6kW, and the time increases a bit: 2.8hrs and 2.4hrs in the above example.

If you are charging above 90% the charging slows down, so factor that in if needed.

If money is tight go with what you can afford assuming the worst possible event of an extended period of no work.

You can always upgrade later when money is no object.

If you think you might upgrade to say 80A later, at least ask the installer to use larger conduit that can accommodate the larger wire in the future - should not be much more $ for larger conduit in material costs. Larger conduit is easier to pull wire through anyway (the voice of experience).

I did a lot of the grunt work for my FCSP install; Bought the wire and flexible conduit (I over estimated how much I needed assuming a worst case conduit run) which cost me about $500 for the wire (100ft x 2 #3awg for hots and 100ft #6 gnd wire) and about $100 for the conduit (100ft 1" flex), then I filled the conduit with the wire in advance - suck wire pulling rope/twine through the conduit using a vacuum cleaner with a paper towel tied to it, lay out the wire taped together at intervals, lube it up with wire pulling lube, then tug it through with a helper (my wife) lubing and guiding it at one end. Then I lugged it up into my attic crawl space and fed it down to the breaker panel at one end and the FCSP at the other, the fun part, lol.

A qualified person can attach the wire with the correct torque at the breaker and the FCSP, inspect, etc.

Saved a lot of labor costs that way, but DIY is not for everyone.

Good luck.

 

[jimfigler]

2025 Lightning Lariat ER

I've read a number of posts regarding charging times 40 vs 48 and it seems like it's 1-1.5 hours difference (from 15-80% in most examples).

I'm on the fence which way to go after having gotten my QMerit Ford Power Promise 2.0 quote.

The selected installer is quoting $1791.25 to install things at 48-amps (60-amp breaker). This is $325 for permitting and $1466.25 for a Stepwise EV Tap (load balancing device). Apparently, his load calculation puts us over the NEC limits.

To install the 40-amp version (50-amp breaker) would be just the $325 permitting fee.

I don't much care about the minimal additional charging time. It seems like very little for almost $1500.00. That would be a bunch of DCFC if needed.

Does anyone have any feedback on the Stepwise EV Tap? It seems strange to me that it doesn't limit the output based on availability but seems to just shut off the tap if the limit is hit.

ETA: I'd really like to have the wiring/etc. installed (correct gauge/etc.) to future proof and allow me to upgrade later if I wanted. But I doubt they'd do that with the Power Promise.

Help me out people? What should I do?

Either way, seems like the installation schedule is two weeks out, so until then I'm stuck with the 120 charging, or paid L2/DCFC stations.

Thanks.

40 to 48 is 20% faster so 20% less time assuming all loses are equal. What's your normal daily mileage?

 

[F150Redux]

Quote has been updated; the "free" Ford Power Promise 2.0 is going to cost me $325 for permitting/etc.

There's no room in their schedule to get it done before I have to head to FL to deal with my father's estate, so it won't get done until I return in the middle of July.

Here's the updated quote.

This is supposed to be for "upgraded wiring" so that it can support 48/60 later if I decide to add a load balancer or upgrade the service/panel. (Notice the CYA "Clarification" entry.)

Not sure why it calls out "Additional Wiring/Conduit Run - 40ft."; guessing it's got something to do with the QMerit quoting system.

Standard Installation Services
Standard Installation covers all the basic labor and material for an Electric Vehicle Charger Installation that is located on the same attached structure as the electrical panel. This may include externally mounted wiring and conduit, a properly sized breaker(s), main panel load calculation, charger mounting and testing.

Standard EV Charging Installation - Panel located on a Garage Wall

• Electrical Panel load calculation including an evaluation of power requirements for all existing electrical circuits and electrical appliances used in your home to ensure your charging installation fits within the capacity of your electrical infrastructure.
• Installation from a panel located on a garage wall (panel facing on outside or inside of the wall) or a wall directly adjacent to the charger install location
• Professional hardwire installation of a customer provided wall-mounted charging station
• Assumes installation location is within 10 ft of electrical panel.
• Installation of code compliant electrical wiring and conduit including all necessary connectors and couplings. Assumes surface mounted conduit. Maximum 60-amp circuit.
• Installation of a new, properly sized breaker to appropriately support the available load and charging amperage output.
• Power up charging unit and test for proper operation.
• Project specific clean-up and disposal.

Additional Wiring/Conduit Run – 40ft.

• Labor and materials required for up to an additional 40 ft of wiring and conduit.
• Price assumes the conduit will be surface mounted to the wall (where applicable) or routed through interior areas of the home that are easily accessible, such as exposed walls or attics, where no significant obstacles will restrict access for installation.

Subtotal
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Permitting and Non-Standard Installation Services
Exclusions include permit fees (permit as required by AHJ), extended or complex wiring runs (i.e. routed through or concealed within walls or ceilings), and home electrical upgrades that may be required to install your EV charger as required by national electric code (NEC). A full list of exclusions can be found below. In certain cases, out-of-pocket costs can be reduced or eliminated by either 1) positioning your charger closer to your electrical panel or 2) reducing the new load on your electrical panel (ex. derating your charger). Speak to your Certified Installer to understand if cost-reduction options are available. Note: Charging speeds of the F-150 Lightning and Mustang Mach-E are limited by the capability of the vehicle's onboard charger. For the 2024 and 2025 Mustang Mach-E and the 2024 and 2025 F-150 Lightning (Extended and Standard Range), the maximum charging rate is 48A (11.5 kW).
Permit
Permit as required by the local Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ). Permit fee includes the following:

• AHJ fees
• Permit application submission (in person or online)
• Site engineering and mapping schematics (as required by AHJ)
• Inspection fees and contractor time for onsite inspections (as required by AHJ)
• Excludes building or fire permit (If required by AHJ)

1 x $325.00
$325.00
Clarification
Due to limited available power, the charger will be derated to charger at 40A. The rating will be 50A. These settings should only be changed by a qualified, licensed EV electrician. Chaning these setting to a higher rating could pose risk to current electrical system if load management or upgrade is not completed.
1 x $0.00
$0.00
Subtotal
$325.00

 

[flyct]

If he is running THHN in conduit for a 40 foot run to meet code for a 50 amp circuit it will be 6 AWG THHN. 6 AWG THHN should also meet code for a 60 amp circuit in the future.

$325 is cheap.

 

[F150Redux]

If he is running THHN in conduit for a 40 foot run to meet code for a 50 amp circuit it will be 6 AWG THHN. 6 AWG THHN should also meet code for a 60 amp circuit in the future.

$325 is cheap.

Yeah, after getting info from everyone here that's what I was thinking. When the installer immediately said "yes", I figured it was the same gauge wire.

I'm good with the $325. Just couldn't bring myself to pay for the Stepwise "load balancer" for $1500 -- no documentation, almost no info on their website, etc.

Thanks again to everyone who provided info/input.

 

[F150Redux]

Update: Got an email this morning from the installer. He had a cancellation, so my FCSP will get installed on 7/2 (day before I have to head back to FL).

Will be nice to not have to leave the mobile cord plugged in for extended periods.

 

[F150Redux]

Update to the update. The installer called this morning. They were nearby and finished another job. They are downstairs doing the install now.

Now if only my Dealer/IRS/Federal rebate issue would resolve itself. lol.

 

[flyct]

Update to the update. The installer called this morning. They were nearby and finished another job. They are downstairs doing the install now.

Now if only my Dealer/IRS/Federal rebate issue would resolve itself. lol.

I for one remember how I was excited when my first EVSE was installed. We can't wait until you report the first charge session.

 

[F150Redux]

I for one remember how I was excited when my first EVSE was installed. We can't wait until you report the first charge session.

So, the EVSE is installed. The physical installation went with no issues. When they went to connect it to the WIFI the SSID for the FCSP wasn't showing up. Took them about 20-30 minutes, some power cycles, and a hard reset, but it finally showed up. (I think the solution was just a little patience while waiting for everything to start up the first time.)

While they were trying to get the software side of things connected it popped into my head about the permitting/inspection, so I asked how that was being handled. They were surprised/unsure... when I said I was being charged $325 for permitting they said something like "oh, well, they'll take care of it". I figure if I don't get some paperwork, I just won't pay the $325.

The other thing I learned was that my installer's company is owned by QMerit, and not just a contracted company.

The Lightning was already at 84% when we plugged it in, so I bumped the charge percentage to 100% and it said completion by 4:15pm (EST), which was a little less than 4 hours from that time.

I'll drive it around and let the charge run down and do a real charge session and see what I get for numbers (40A EVSE/50A breaker).

(There is a shelf to the right of the EVSE and some other stuff over in the alcove by the door. It's not "messy" but it's not this clean either. I just moved everything so they could do their work.)

 

[flyct]

I doubt that they pulled a permit. If they had they should have posted it at the site and after completion called for inspection. if they didn’t pull the permit withhold the $325.

 

[daveross1212]

I have a 48amp charger usually derated to 40amp because I sometimes use an J1772 extension cord only rated for 40amps. Honestly, the extra hour+ of charge time never really bothers me, I wouldn't worry about it, but installing wiring for a future upgrade was smart.

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