Ford 80A Charge Station Pro

[Brian Head Yankee]

I plan on ordering a Lightning with the bigger battery pack. I wonder how many people with a standard 200 amp service could withstand adding another 240v/80 amp breaker. I am looking ahead and my electrician says I need to add another 100A panel next to my meter (and next to my Generac 22kW propane backup) where I could charge the truck and connect to 24v/80A.

Why? Ask your electrician to install a couple of twin 20's to free up two spaces for the new 80 A. If he doesn't know what a twin is, find a new electrician! (A twin fits 2 breakers into two spaces. While the density is doubled, they are legal and work fine. I used hundreds of them when I was a licensed contractor).

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[shikataganai]

Note that the 80A EVSE will require a 100A circuit and breaker. 80% nominal rating for full-time loads.

 

[jdogg]

Hey guys,

Really neat discussion. I've been trying to find out more about the new charger and this thread fits the bill!

A couple of things I've been wondering...
1. I'm assuming the 80A EVSE would allow you to charge other EVs and not just Ford?
2. Similarly, could you plug in another EV into the same charger (assuming it has an adequate capacity of course) and have it also work as a battery backup for the home? Or is that relying on proprietary Ford tech in the lightning?

What it comes down to is this: if you invest in a new lightning and the 80A EVSE for the backup capabilities, are you essentially locking yourself into the Ford eco-system? Don't get me wrong, at the end of the day it probably won't be an issue for me but as a software developer, I'm wired to think about inter-operability and avoiding vendor lock-in.

 

[wingfiry]

Hey guys,

Really neat discussion. I've been trying to find out more about the new charger and this thread fits the bill!

A couple of things I've been wondering...
1. I'm assuming the 80A EVSE would allow you to charge other EVs and not just Ford?
2. Similarly, could you plug in another EV into the same charger and have it also work as a battery backup for the home? Or is that relying on proprietary Ford tech in the lightning?

What it comes down to is this: if you invest in a new lightning and the 80A EVSE for the backup capabilities, are you essentially locking yourself into the Ford eco-system? Don't get me wrong, at the end of the day it probably won't be an issue for me but as a software developer, I'm wired to think about inter-operability and avoiding vendor lock-in.

That charger should charge anything with a CCS plug.

The 2nd question is a really good one. Hardware-wise, it should theoretically be able to do the same with any vehicle; The question is whether or not they lock that feature down through software or not.

 

[jdogg]

the 1st question is a yes. That charger will charge anything with a J1772 (the top part of a CCS) plug. (basically anything not tesla).

The 2nd question is a really good one. Hardware-wise, it should theoretically be able to do the same with any vehicle; The question is whether or not they lock that feature down through software or not.

Cool. Thanks! I was also just thinking that eventually Ford will have to make the 80A EVSE optional for the ER lightning as repeat buyers will already have one.

 

[Theo1000]

Details are not released but the next step up of the charge standard Char-In, basically everyone but TSLA, is designed to incorporate vehicle to home power. First CCS, then CCS-1, next up is Char-In standard. We will have to see if the F-150 follows the Char-In, (Ford is a founding member) in which case the intent would be interoperability. Will it all work first generation? Lot of bleeding edge tech here. Plug & Charge based of CCS-1 after a few hiccups kinda works on the Mach-E across platforms, though it did not work well at all early on. Ford has largely fixed P&C. I just feel there will be a ton of hiccups just making it work on the F-150, I wouldn't count on reliable inter-operability early on, maybe even medium term.

 

[jdogg]

Details are not released but the next step up of the charge standard Char-In, basically everyone but TSLA, is designed to incorporate vehicle to home power. First CCS, then CCS-1, next up is Char-In standard. We will have to see if the F-150 follows the Char-In, (Ford is a founding member) in which case the intent would be interoperability. Will it all work first generation? Lot of bleeding edge tech here. Plug & Charge based of CCS-1 after a few hiccups kinda works on the Mach-E across platforms, though it did not work well at all early on. Ford has largely fixed P&C. I just feel there will be a ton of hiccups just making it work on the F-150, I wouldn't count on reliable inter-operability early on, maybe even medium term.

Yeah, I totally get the growing pains. Knowing that the intent of interop is there would be the main thing. As you say, only time will tell...

 

[Blainestang]

the 1st question is a yes. That charger will charge anything with a J1772 (the top part of a CCS) plug. (basically anything not tesla).

I assumed it would at first, but now I'm not sure that it will.

It has a full CCS DC plug, so if the car you're trying to charge has a CCS DCFC port, then it will probably plug in and work.

If you other car only has a regular J1772 plug, though (like a Bolt without DCFC or Leaf or i3 without DCFC or Fiat 500e, etc.), it probably won't be able to physically plug in.

And I'm not sure if the Tesla adapter will connect or not. Someone else may have tried that on another DC CCS plug though.

 

[wingfiry]

I assumed it would at first, but now I'm not sure that it will.

It has a full CCS DC plug, so if the car you're trying to charge has a CCS DCFC port, then it will probably plug in and work.

If you other car only has a regular J1772 plug, though (like a Bolt without DCFC or Leaf or i3 without DCFC or Fiat 500e, etc.), it probably won't be able to physically plug in.

And I'm not sure if the Tesla adapter will connect or not. Someone else may have tried that on another DC CCS plug though.

I didn't realize it had a full CCS plug on it. I had thought it was a J1772, but that may have been an assumption on my part.

 

[Blainestang]

I didn't realize it had a full CCS plug on it. I had thought it was a J1772, but that may have been an assumption on my part.

Yeah, same here, but someone posted a picture of it here a while back. So, I think it will *probably* work for other CCS cars, but others may not work.

EDIT: Oh, it was this thread. haha The first pic shows the plug head.

 

[Nick Gerteis]

Yeah, same here, but someone posted a picture of it here a while back. So, I think it will *probably* work for other CCS cars, but others may not work.

EDIT: Oh, it was this thread. haha The first pic shows the plug head.

FWIW eBay has J 1772 male to female extension cords. That should work for charging non-CCS vehicles with this EVSE.

 

[shikataganai]

2. Similarly, could you plug in another EV into the same charger (assuming it has an adequate capacity of course) and have it also work as a battery backup for the home? Or is that relying on proprietary Ford tech in the lightning?

It's overdriving the DC plugs at the bottom of the CCS combo plug. Other cars with CCS ports wouldn't natively know (or have the ability to) route DC power out through them to the EVSE, afaik, as that's not part of the base spec.

This is kind of why we have EVSEs: smart plugs, more or less, that negotiate to the least common denominator of charger power, EVSE power, or, in this case, whether vehicle-to-home capability is there.

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

In response to question 2...I'd also imagine Ford would lock that down to only Ford vehicles. There would be alot of liability if a Ford charger destroyed another EV due to Ford based features in the charging system. Plus, if you can do it with any vehicle...people will just buy the chargers and Ford would lose vehicle sales.

 

[sotek2345]

I have a 150A service (put in when we bought the house) with plenty of space available, but am prepared to updated if needed for the 80A charger. I want to look at upgrading my solar at the same time. What I have (~6 years old) doesn't come close to covering my needs but was the most I could get on my roof because the panels were too heavy for my old roof (~120 year old structure).

 

[Brian Head Yankee]

As long as you don't have a hot tub, electric oven, electric dryer your 150 A service will be fine.

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