Inside EV‘s China auto show-we are toast!

[mr.Magoo]

China's main export is bullshit.

Since truth and facts appear to be of the outmost importance to you, Im kind of curious what information/sources you are basing your opinions on.

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[Maxx]

Since truth and facts appear to be of the outmost importance to you, Im kind of curious what information/sources you are basing your opinions on.

They certainly can B.S. about things you can not verify but most things these days are not of that sort. They are advancing in may fields with break neck speed. Like in quantum computing:

Zuchongzhi 3.0 achieved ("quantum supremacy") by performing random circuit sampling tasks quadrillion times faster than the world's most powerful classical supercomputer and one million times faster than the latest Google quantum processor (Willow QPU, December 2024)

Origin Wukong set a world record for the largest quantum computational fluid dynamics simulation and is the first Chinese quantum computer to receive a commercial procurement order from a major international enterprise.

In this field, they are neck and neck with U.S. we beat them, then they beat us, .... but this type of stuff is all peer reviewed and hard to B.S. about. On the other hand, projections of what companies plan to do like Tesla's FSD, is another story.

 

[RickLightning]

Many US auto companies have teamed with Chinese companies to make batteries. If they aren't ahead of us, why?

Farley drove a Chinese EV for 6 months and said he didn't want to give it back.

 

[CavRider]

As regards the Chinese EV industry the Out of Spec crew recently spent some time in China driving some of their products.. I suppose they (Chinese mfg) could have made sure to provide them (OOS) with outlier product but I don't believe OOS was accompanied by any "minders". Their (or just Kyle's) opinions were pretty damn high. You can easily find YT vids of this.

I also follow the Fully Charged podcast out of the UK. They have recently spent time in Australia where there is no domestic auto manufacturing. China is a huge player there and they rave about the product.

 

[Tony Burgh]

Competition makes companies better, not tariffs and barriers that encourage complacency.

 

[Grumpy2]

A barrier helps for a short time if one party has gone asleep and has the ability to recover quickly. In the case of US automakers we have shown over the last 2-4 years we can not recover and may very well go the way of the American Shipbuilding industry.

 

[Ricks Lightning]

Who remembers when Harbor Freight first opened and they basically sold throw away tools. Now they still sell throw away tools due to price point. But they also market keepers that are priced much higher than their throw aways.

Pretty sure we can say thing about some of the quality of our stuff too.

Rick

 

[mr.Magoo]

Pretty sure we can say thing about some of the quality of our stuff too.

I'm sure someone will pipe in and say that most of HF tools are made in China.

Then again, everyone had their learning curves and I dont think China is synonymous with garbage anymore (and haven't been for atleast 15 years), they can produce garbage if that's what you're paying for, but they also produce high quality stuff.

While people may not like this, the fact that they forced foreign companies to start joint ventures vs. just opening a new plant helped with technology transfer. No one forced companies to open factories there, "we" willingly did so chasing cheaper products and higher profitability.

The thing that's driving EV expansion in China is that 10-15 years ago, getting a license plate was ridiculously expensive because they limited the availability (to at least try to curb pollution and congestion) and as a result you had to wait years to get one - or - buy the plate through auctions (we're talking tens of thousands). This is still the case for ICE vehicles, EVs however have higher availability thus significantly less expensive.

 

[trev5150]

Responses in line

Apologies to the OP for helping to hijack this thread.



Whereas the information coming out of The White House these days is ......what, exactly?

Well that's dependent on how you voted and how flexible you are, which is a stark contrast to the organized obfuscation about any information coming from official Chinese sources.

I worked in pharmaceutical development for 35 years. Back when I started it was true that we were cautious about the quality of a degree earned in China. But, like they do, China identified this as a problem and focused enormous resources on the solution. Fast-forward 30 years and many PIs (i.e., the people in charge of academic research) in China carry PhDs from western universities, and they are doing innovative work.

OK so are those Chinese PI's with western PhD's modernizing and bringing their labs up to the standard of the western world, to include openness to the academic rigors of peer review as well as safety and humanitarian standards like IACUC? Or are they just saying they are and doing what they're told by the central government? I think it's the latter.

The EV-thing is exactly the same. Does China lie, cheat, and steal? Absolutely. But they also invest where they see opportunity, and that's why they are now a decade ahead of us in this arena. They are moving forward with intention while we are trying desperately to hang on to the past.

That's why we have to stop fighting fair and simply allowing them to do whatever they want with no consequence, a stance that has been absent since the early 90's - NAFTA, New World Order, globalization, etc.

It's time for us to wake up; we are on the cusp of losing our standing as the world's research powerhouse.

This all day.

Consider this: Our government just earmarked an ENORMOUS budget to push a vaccine technology that the research world abandoned in the 70's.

Links or GTFO

Simultaneously, they slashed research funding across all disciplines.

Slashed funding to slush, fraud waste and abuse (FWA) and bloated administration for sure. Prove that critical things actually got or are being cut. Resetting programmatically and structurally is not a bad thing.

Does that sound like the way to "drive innovation" to you?

If the cuts and cleanup efforts work, yes, absolutely 100%. Before the current administration, the money supported the apparatus for the sake of the apparatus. Make sure the machine is big and do the actual work later, if ever. The bloodletting was a long time coming and sorely needed. Bloated bureaucracy is not the goal, but that's what we got.

 

[trev5150]

Since truth and facts appear to be of the outmost importance to you, Im kind of curious what information/sources you are basing your opinions on.

Every article and newsfeed and world event for the last 80 years. Your screen name seems thoroughly appropriate. Have you not been paying attention to anything that's happened since WWII?

 

[CavRider]

Every article and newsfeed and world event for the last 80 years. Your screen name seems thoroughly appropriate. Have you not been paying attention to anything that's happened since WWII?

You seem to be the counter example to the “recency effect”. But, I think you could use a little more of it.

Time to update your worldview brother. Magoo is not wrong.

IMHO of course.

 

[trev5150]

You seem to be the counter example to the “recency effect”. But, I think you could use a little more of it.

Time to update your worldview brother. Magoo is not wrong.

IMHO of course.

WHAT

Because I take into consideration the entirety of the historical events and causalities therein that I am not taking recent events into consideration, or have an anachronistic worldview? Because it doesn't align with your off-the-shelf PnP version? Bull effin ssshhhhhheeeeiiitittt BBRRUUUTHHHHHEERRRRRR

 

[Scorpio3d]

And now back to the topic at hand!

 

[pullinggs]

Responses in line

Actually, facts are facts. Lies are lies. Lies

My career was in pharmaceutical R&D. If research isn't peer reviewed, it isn't research.

This program will just waste money.

And I'm sorry for feeding the troll. I'll stop now.

 

[Yellow Buddy]

So…whats the consensus after 2 pages?

Are we toast? Or is it still bread?
Is it too late? Are we stale? Can we pivot to croutons?

Do the French have anything to say about it?

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