Is there really a need to rotate tires if tread wear is symmetrical?

[Zprime29]

Sure, but the aging models also have to account for sun and uv exposure for extremely hot and sunny countries, far in excess of what any of us here get. And I cannot be certain, but I'm highly confident, that the tire companies do not expect people to unmount their tires and turn the inner sidewall out to balance aging, so I have to believe the aging model accounts for that.

I still maintain the argument that the models already account for this and that none of us here will see a tire with enough sun damage to make it unsafe before it wears, or ages, out.

You've obviously never lived in Arizona. I had a 2013 Honda Pilot that was parked in the driveway, so full sun every day all day. Took it in for an oil change and the kind folks at Midas pointed out my sidewalls where beginning to crack. Had at least another 10k miles worth of tread left but replaced them anyways. When I asked the tech if that's common, he said more often that I would think it, especially for people who are unable to park inside. We cleaned out the garage as soon as temps cooled off that year.

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[Firn]

You've obviously never lived in Arizona. I had a 2013 Honda Pilot that was parked in the driveway, so full sun every day all day. Took it in for an oil change and the kind folks at Midas pointed out my sidewalls where beginning to crack. Had at least another 10k miles worth of tread left but replaced them anyways. When I asked the tech if that's common, he said more often that I would think it, especially for people who are unable to park inside. We cleaned out the garage as soon as temps cooled off that year.

How old were the tires? Older than 6 years? Older than 10?

 

[Zprime29]

How old were the tires? Older than 6 years? Older than 10?

Original tires, was before covid so around 6 years old (we bought it late 2013). I don't recall the mileage, just that I was surprised when the tech pointed it out. Apparently keeping it in the garage makes a big difference here.

 

[StevenC56]

You have to look at the DOT date codes on the tires, not when you had them installed. You'd be surprised how many 1-2+ year old tires get installed from tire shops.

 

[Zprime29]

You have to look at the DOT date codes on the tires, not when you had them installed. You'd be surprised how many 1-2+ year old tires get installed from tire shops.

Good point, never thought about how long they sit around before installation. Now you've got me curious about my current set of tires. The humidity gets down into the low teens, not a tire expert but I can't imagine that's good for rubber.

 

[StevenC56]

Good point, never thought about how long they sit around before installation. Now you've got me curious about my current set of tires. The humidity gets down into the low teens, not a tire expert but I can't imagine that's good for rubber.

Example on a new vehicle. My 2024 Lightning has a production date of 5/24. The Goodyear tires on it have a date code of 1724. (17th week of 2024) That means when I took delivery of my truck 10/1/24 the tires were already 5 months old.

 

[ExCivilian]

The humidity gets down into the low teens, not a tire expert but I can't imagine that's good for rubber.

It has some marginal impact but not as much concern as UV exposure. Tires that get installed from a large shop hold their inventory in warehouses and cycle through them often enough that a year or two isn't going to impact the average consumer.

That's completely different from setting them on the back porch or parking broadside to the sun in a desert climate.

 

[Zprime29]

It has some marginal impact but not as much concern as UV exposure. Tires that get installed from a large shop hold their inventory in warehouses and cycle through them often enough that a year or two isn't going to impact the average consumer.

That's completely different from setting them on the back porch or parking broadside to the sun in a desert climate.

I just started pestering my work to put in some solar covered parking. One can dream.

 

[ExCivilian]

Forgot to mention I never rotated my Lariat's wheels for the three years I owned it and the wear pattern was nearly identical across all four. I don't intend to rotate my Platinum's wheels, either.

I disagree that rotating to account for microscopic wear is only beneficial. The counter argument that I've read from self-asserted tire experts/engineers is that you don't "balance" the wear you *increase* it when rotating.

So, for example, a basic example of scalloped tread would result in both edges becoming scalloped...not an unscalloped tire. Scalloping both edges of the tire doesn't magically resolve into a perfectly evenly worn tire--although that seems to be the common sense conclusion being made in this conversation--it instead results in a doubly worn tire. Those past conversations' recommendations were to run the tires down and replace two at a time thereby resulting in longer run time across sets.

As far as a manufacturer recommendations, all of my past vehicles that had 50/50 weight distribution explicitly stated that owners are *not* to rotate and I doubt our maintenance schedule is specific to the Lightning so should be read with appropriate levels of salt.

 

[Heliian]

I can clearly state without a doubt that the fronts will wear faster. You might not notice it right away but the slightly heavier weight and the fact that the front wheels steer and also have more braking loads are a couple of reasons.

 

[ExCivilian]

I can clearly state without a doubt that the fronts will wear faster.

Sure, which is why

Those past conversations' recommendations were to run the tires down and replace two at a time thereby resulting in longer run time across sets.

Tires also wear faster on one side of the vehicle than the other...but it's not worth getting into the weeds as to why or what to do about it the same way it doesn't make sense for the average consumer to worry about UV/age unless the tire is visibly cracking and/or many years old--not the three to four year service life of tires on a daily driven 1/2 ton pickup.

I suggest people think long and hard about what they'e trying to achieve by ensuring their tires wear "evenly" because the point of tires, from my perspective, is to maximize contact with the ground rather than prioritizing even wear that results in less optimal road contact (which is what happens when you constantly rotate tires to account for any "rough" edges, etc.).

And for as much thought as people are putting into tire wear, how many people in this discussion have actually gone to their tire manufacturer's page for their specific tire and cross-referenced the psi to load rating chart (all manufacturers provide them afaik) and then run an individual chalk test to see how their rig is sitting on those shoes?

 

[Heliian]

how many people

Almost zero, there was one guy online who thought lowering the pressure to create more contact area was better with a heavier load.

Rotating tires to have an even wear is important for traction, especially when road conditions are less favorable.

 

[ExCivilian]

Rotating tires to have an even wear is important for traction, especially when road conditions are less favorable.

I already explained why this isn't accurate.

Tires do not sit on the road "evenly" and they don't wear "evenly." Rotating them doesn't ensure maximum rubber contact with the road--it does the opposite resulting in less contact with the road surface.

 

[Scorpio3d]

I always rotate my tires or have them rotated because the vehicles I have driven have been heavy and have chewed through tires way faster than the manufacturer warranty. I am sure it has nothing to do with the fact that I drive my truck like a sports car. If you do not rotate your tires, then they generally will not honor the warranty. I like to pay less when I purchase my next set because good tires are not cheap!

 

[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

I think the main reason to rotate the tires on the Lightning is to force us to look at the brakes...otherwise I might never bother...cause I always use one-pedal-drive mode.

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