Max tow = range impact? Told by dealer...

[SpaceEVDriver]

Yes I agree the mass is negligible. I've even seen some you tube tests of having 1500lbs or something in the bed, with minimal aerodynamic changes, and the efficiency barely moved. Like under 10% worse.

As for the power consumption while it's on, I guess that's the real source. And as a non owner (yet), I can't find good reliable info about how these systems work or not.

The dealer was implying that the cooling/temp mgmt systems ran all the time, alongside the regular thermal mgmt system, and that was the cause.


Regardless, it sounds like the truck were gonna get brought in will NOT have the max tow.

But it will have the AT tires. So, @RickLightning, curious if you have a comparison for how bad it is?


Thanks all. These boards are so helpful for the EV scene since dealers are seemingly near useless

I have AT tires on my '23 Lariat ER. I drive through the Mojave Desert about once a month. My last trip was when it was up to 120 ºF during the drive. Doing 70-73 mph on the freeway, I got 2.8 miles/kWh. That translates to around 360-370 miles range. YMMV, of course.

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[RickLightning]

I have AT tires on my '23 Lariat ER. I drive through the Mojave Desert about once a month. My last trip was when it was up to 120 ºF during the drive. Doing 70-73 mph on the freeway, I got 2.8 miles/kWh. That translates to around 360-370 miles range. YMMV, of course.

At 70 - 73mph, I have never gotten anywhere near 2.8. You're getting it because you're on a flat road, with no stock and go, and it's warm.

 

[Jmmanley1]

I've theorized that Max Tow is the reason the Platinum's EPA range is 300 instead of 320 for all other trims. Max Tow is standard on a Platinum and optional on other trims. I've not verified this in any scientific way.

Larger wheels are the issue. I have a max tow Lariat…326 mi range at 100%. Irl with freeway driving its probably closer 300. I’d expect the same drop from the Platinum down to 280 or so.

 

[user-name-required]

I have AT tires on my '23 Lariat ER. I drive through the Mojave Desert about once a month. My last trip was when it was up to 120 ºF during the drive. Doing 70-73 mph on the freeway, I got 2.8 miles/kWh. That translates to around 360-370 miles range. YMMV, of course.

Wow that's wild, in cdn terms that's 4.48km per kwh...at the 131 kw capacity gives a theoretical range of 580kms, above the official one of 515kms. That's like 22.3kw/100km....which I got around town but not hwy. Good work! Based on your time and distance your avg velocity was 67mph.

When I did a hwy test with the test drive truck I had, I got way less efficiency. I was doing 115-118kmh so about the same as you, and got 37kw/100km...or about 355kms range. Using 90% for driving, 5% for climate, 2% accy and 3% ext temps (was 7-8°C).



Hope I can hit numbers like yours with this!!

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Wow that's wild, in cdn terms that's 4.48km per kwh...at the 131 kw capacity gives a theoretical range of 580kms, above the official one of 515kms. That's like 22.3kw/100km....which I got around town but not hwy. Good work! Based on your time and distance your avg velocity was 67mph.

When I did a hwy test with the test drive truck I had, I got way less efficiency. I was doing 115-118kmh so about the same as you, and got 37kw/100km...or about 355kms range. Using 90% for driving, 5% for climate, 2% accy and 3% ext temps (was 7-8°C).



Hope I can hit numbers like yours with this!!

Full disclosure: This particular trip, which I do once every 1-3 months includes a loss (and then gain) of elevation of about 6800 feet (2100 meters). On the way down I get 2.8-3.0 miles/kWh (22.2 to 20.7 kWh/100 km, as shown) and on the way up I get 2.0 to 2.2 miles/kWh (31.1 to 28.3 kWh/100 km). So my average is around 2.4 miles/kWh (25.9 kWh/100 km) on this particular trip of 1100 miles (1770 km).

On some of these trips, the winds generated by the interaction between extremely dry and hot desert and the cool/wet coast can cause me a large loss in efficiency, sometimes bringing one long leg down to about 1.7 miles/kWh (36.6 kWh/100 km).

My lifetime (7500 miles; 12100 km) is 2.4 miles/kWh (25.9 kWh/100 km), but I don't drive this around town much--we have the Mustang Mach-E for local driving and after 43,000 miles (63,000 km) of mixed freeway/local driving, we are averaging 4.1 miles/kWh or 15.2 kWh/100 km).

We do get "cold" here, but not BC "cold." Cold weather performance will be less, potentially by quite a bit.

 

[user-name-required]

Full disclosure: This particular trip, which I do once every 1-3 months includes a loss (and then gain) of elevation of about 6800 feet (2100 meters). On the way down I get 2.8-3.0 miles/kWh (22.2 to 20.7 kWh/100 km, as shown) and on the way up I get 2.0 to 2.2 miles/kWh (31.1 to 28.3 kWh/100 km). So my average is around 2.4 miles/kWh (25.9 kWh/100 km) on this particular trip of 1100 miles (1770 km).

On some of these trips, the winds generated by the interaction between extremely dry and hot desert and the cool/wet coast can cause me a large loss in efficiency, sometimes bringing one long leg down to about 1.7 miles/kWh (36.6 kWh/100 km).

My lifetime (7500 miles; 12100 km) is 2.4 miles/kWh (25.9 kWh/100 km), but I don't drive this around town much--we have the Mustang Mach-E for local driving and after 43,000 miles (63,000 km) of mixed freeway/local driving, we are averaging 4.1 miles/kWh or 15.2 kWh/100 km).

We do get "cold" here, but not BC "cold." Cold weather performance will be less, potentially by quite a bit.

Great data, thanks! And that's all with the AT tires?

I'd be pretty stoked if I could get lifetime avgs on the lightning to be sub 26 kw/100kms efficiency. Heck even sub 28. Electrical prices here would put that at about $3-$3.50/100kms cost of fuel.

Tad bit better than the 12-13L/100km ($20-$25) cost of fueling the ICE version!

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Great data, thanks! And that's all with the AT tires?

I'd be pretty stoked if I could get lifetime avgs on the lightning to be sub 26 kw/100kms efficiency. Heck even sub 28. Electrical prices here would put that at about $3-$3.50/100kms cost of fuel.

Tad bit better than the 12-13L/100km ($20-$25) cost of fueling the ICE version!

All with stock Hankook AT2 275/60R20 tires--note that these are not the BFGoodrich AT tires that some trucks were shipped with.

I run them up near the top of their pressure profile, rather than at the recommended pressure on the door jamb sticker. At some point I'll buy a set of lighter-weight 18" wheels and street tires for spring/summer/autumn/road tripping and keep the 20" wheels for snow/winter tires.

 

[Randall Stephens]

Hi all

Saga continues for me to actually get my hands on the lightning that I want...

But in the meantime, I have had a couple dealers tell me that they've had customers complain that purchased the max tow package. They said that the extra cooling equipment in that uses up a bit of extra energy and adds a small amount of weight of course.

Has anyone heard any kind of concrete evidence about this one way or another? Like maybe had a friend that swapped from one without Max tow to one with it or something or just heard other people commenting on it? I can't tell if it's just the sales people telling me that so they can get me behind the wheel of it or not. Personally I don't think I would actually need to tow anything heavier than 7500lbs, but I had thought for later resale value that I may just get the truck with it.


I'm just interested to know if anyone has heard other info that would confirm this or not. Or if @Ford Motor Company could confirm If there is even any amount of range difference or efficiency difference between Max tow or not?

It kind of makes sense to me that there would be..

Your desired cabin temperature will have more affect on range than ant supposed range loss for the package.

 

[Jim Lewis]

I have a 2023 Lighting Lariat ER with the Max Tow package. In city driving, I can get a full-charge guessometer range of 350 miles during an especially hot summer here in San Antonio. I have the standard 20-inch all-season tires inflated to 42 psi. I drive with cabin AC set to 80° F. I think driving style (besides the size and tread of your tires) will have the biggest influence on your mi/kWh. If you like to accelerate rapidly and don't take advantage of regen braking, your mileage will suffer. Gentle acceleration does wonders for your mi/kWh figure (and is probably easier on the battery), but less fun.

 

[MountainAlive]

I believe it's the larger wheels, not Max Tow.

I've got a 2023 XLT with max tow and the AT tires and I seem to get the same range and energy usage as most people seem to get on these forums. If it has any impact, it is super negligible.

I think it was just dealer speak. I can translate: “I know you really want max tow, but that’s not what I have on the lot.” My own max two has been fine range wise and appears to make what everyone else is getting (non max tow).

 

[chl]

Hi all

Saga continues for me to actually get my hands on the lightning that I want...

But in the meantime, I have had a couple dealers tell me that they've had customers complain that purchased the max tow package. They said that the extra cooling equipment in that uses up a bit of extra energy and adds a small amount of weight of course.

Has anyone heard any kind of concrete evidence about this one way or another? Like maybe had a friend that swapped from one without Max tow to one with it or something or just heard other people commenting on it? I can't tell if it's just the sales people telling me that so they can get me behind the wheel of it or not. Personally I don't think I would actually need to tow anything heavier than 7500lbs, but I had thought for later resale value that I may just get the truck with it.


I'm just interested to know if anyone has heard other info that would confirm this or not. Or if @Ford Motor Company could confirm If there is even any amount of range difference or efficiency difference between Max tow or not?

It kind of makes sense to me that there would be..

It is BS.

How much could the extra compressor weigh? Not much.
According to available information, a Ford F-150 Lightning's AC compressor typically weighs around 17 pounds.

The extra DC-AC converter for 9.6kW? Not much.
Estimated at maybe 12 lbs including the wiring and outlets for the extra 7.2kW

How much energy does the extra compressor use? Not much.
---
Google it:

The "X Tow Package" (also referred to as the "Max Trailer Tow Package") on a Ford F-150 Lightning does not add a significant amount of weight to the vehicle itself, but it allows the truck to tow a substantially heavier load, with the maximum towing capacity increasing to 10,000 pounds when equipped with the package and the extended range battery, compared to 7,700 pounds without it; essentially, the weight added is negligible compared to the increased towing capacity.

Key points about the tow package and weight:
Minimal direct weight addition:
The tow package primarily consists of upgraded cooling systems, trailer brake controllers, and potentially some minor suspension adjustments, which add minimal weight to the vehicle itself.

 

[chl]

Ignoring the lies most dealers will tell to sell a vehicle... Do the math.

The extra weight is negligible. Less than 1% weight difference from the added components, which translates to less than 1% range difference. Weight matters for acceleration energy cost, and we do more acceleration than most people believe (for example, changing direction on a wide curve highway is an acceleration even when done at a constant speed). But because F=ma is linear with mass, you'll see less than 1% change in energy cost due to the extra weight.

The extra cooling, when on, will draw about 5 kW. That can add up if you're hauling a long distance. Say you're towing for an hour in Death Valley in the summer...you'll need that cooler on and you'll use ~5kWh. Out of 130 kWh of battery on the ER, that extra use is about 3.8%, or about 6 miles out of ~150 miles range while towing.

Total range decrease due to having and using max tow is less than about 4% while towing in a hot environment. But it preserves long-term battery life.

You can gain that range back by slowing down a few mph. Once drag becomes dominant, the total energy cost to move the vehicle is proportional to speed cubed (aerodynamic drag introduces another multiple of velocity that's not accounted for in E=1/2m*v^2).

The added weight of the max tow and propower 9.6kW system are negligible.

But...significant extra weight adds to the resistance of the wheels/tires with the road which is a significant factor (rolling resistance) at low speeds - air drag is the most significant factor at higher speeds.

Key factors explaining how vehicle elements impact efficiency:

Weight:
A lighter vehicle requires less energy to accelerate and maintain speed, leading to better fuel efficiency. Extra weight also increases a vehicle's rolling resistance, which is a force that resists forward motion produced as the wheels roll over the road.
Engine size:
Smaller engines generally use less fuel per mile compared to larger ones, assuming similar power output.
Aerodynamics:
A vehicle with a streamlined design experiences less air resistance, improving fuel efficiency.
Rolling resistance:
Properly inflated tires with good tread patterns minimize friction with the road, reducing energy loss.
Driving habits:
Aggressive acceleration, hard braking, and excessive speeding significantly decrease fuel efficiency.
Road conditions:
Driving uphill or on rough roads requires more energy, impacting fuel consumption.
Gearing:
The gear ratios of a transmission can optimize engine operation for different driving situations, influencing fuel efficiency

 

[Cobalt Blue]

Larger wheels are the issue. I have a max tow Lariat…326 mi range at 100%. Irl with freeway driving its probably closer 300. I’d expect the same drop from the Platinum down to 280 or so.

I’m not completely bummed, but I did get in a bit of a hurry with my purchase of my 24 Lariat ER. My plan was to wait for a 2025. But with the coming change in administration, I felt certain that the federal EV tax credit would be gone. I initially found one in Ocala, Fl. I was headed off to pick it up when I found an ER Lariat closer to home. The price matched the one in Ocala. The thing that I let get by me was the one in Ocala had Max towing. The one closer to home did not. (honestly, I hadn’t done enough research in my haste). With that being said, I don’t have any intention on towing anything close to 10,000 lbs, but the fact that I could’ve have more capability for the exact same costs has me kicking myself.

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