RIP RAM BEV

[Altivec]

Has anyone ever changed your mind?

You told me I was wrong. See above.

and you told me I am wrong... Welcome to the internet. That's called a difference of opinion, not elitism.

I am a very practical person. Absolutely, others have changed my mind. In this case, my 11 year experience with an EREV trumps how some dude on the Internet imagines it will be like. So no, nobody is going to change my mind on this one unless they can prove that all the problems I have encountered got resolved. That means reviews of this RAM, 10 years after it comes out. By that time new EV batteries will be out and, I won't care anyways. All I can do, is come back here 10 years from now and say you were right.

Your comment of calling members here "pure EV elitists" is just outlandish. Heck, we are talking about having outlets to plug a gas generator in as a solution or suggest sticking with ICE vehicles if you do a lot of long distance driving. How is that "pure EV" elitism?

Sponsored

 

[chl]

I think Chrysler/Stellantis is way behind the curve.

In a few years, new battery technology (Sodium ION for example) will make the range and charging time issues of EVs practically moot....unfortunately of US consumers, it will likely be China that produces it and because of protectionism, we in the US will be left out.

 

[Altivec]

I think Chrysler/Stellantis is way behind the curve.

In a few years, new battery technology (Sodium ION for example) will make the range and charging time issues of EVs practically moot....unfortunately of US consumers, it will likely be China that produces it and because of protectionism, we in the US will be left out.

I agree with you 100%. Only worse. I don't think it's only Stelantis. Ford was on the right course with the lightning, but they needed to stay the course and improve it year after year. Farley, unfortunately is flip flopping like a fish when it comes to EV's. He did a 180 with his comments about the lightning a little over a year ago which makes me believe Ford too is going to try the EREV thing. I just hope he is smart enough to keep the lightning a BEV and keep moving forward with it.

As you said, you can't be short sighted in these things. New battery tech is being worked on all around the world. Breakthroughs will happen and it's just around the corner. If you are wasting billions developing and building factories on an EREV, and then a cheap battery that gets 800 miles and charges in 15 minutes comes out, you are going to be left holding the bag and spending years trying to switch over. China gets this. The USA, not so much.

 

[On the Road with Ralph]

Why in the world would you get something like this over a proven ICE f150 if you do a lot of long distance driving?

As someone who has taken his SR Lightning on 14 road trips (and about to leave on #15) of more than 1500 miles each, I think this take is comically absurd. I do an insane amount of long distance driving and the Lightning fits my use case perfectly. It is a joy to drive.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I agree with you 100%. Only worse. I don't think it's only Stelantis. Ford was on the right course with the lightning, but they needed to stay the course and improve it year after year. Farley, unfortunately is flip flopping like a fish when it comes to EV's. He did a 180 with his comments about the lightning a little over a year ago which makes me believe Ford too is going to try the EREV thing. I just hope he is smart enough to keep the lightning a BEV and keep moving forward with it.

As you said, you can't be short sighted in these things. New battery tech is being worked on all around the world. Breakthroughs will happen and it's just around the corner. If you are wasting billions developing and building factories on an EREV, and then a cheap battery that gets 800 miles and charges in 15 minutes comes out, you are going to be left holding the bag and spending years trying to switch over. China gets this. The USA, not so much.

Exactly this. The retreat US manufacturers are engaging in is wasteful and short-sighted. The protectionism they're enjoying is going to hurt them in the long run. As the rest of the world moves away from gassy vehicles, US manufacturing will have a smaller and smaller market. And they will fall further and further behind. But since they won't have to compete with superior products, they will be able to convince their captive customers everything is fine.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

As someone who has taken his SR Lightning on 14 road trips (and about to leave on #15) of more than 1500 miles each, I think this take is comically absurd. I do an insane amount of long distance driving and the Lightning fits my use case perfectly. It is a joy to drive.

We've driven 75k miles in our EVs, mostly road trips of 1200+ miles each. Everything about our EVe has been superior to the gassy vehicles we've left being. At this point, nobody could pay me to go back to gas, whether it was a hybrid or all gas.

 

[Altivec]

As someone who has taken his SR Lightning on 14 road trips (and about to leave on #15) of more than 1500 miles each, I think this take is comically absurd. I do an insane amount of long distance driving and the Lightning fits my use case perfectly. It is a joy to drive.

Everyone has their own unique use case. I agree with you 100%. For me the extra stop here and there for the few long distance trips I make is well worth the benefits I gain from having an EV. That comment was directed to those that don't feel that way. That for their use case, current BEV's aren't good enough but think that an EREV is going to make it all great. My point was, if you are okay with using gas anyways, and you don't have the patience to stop at charge stations because maybe you use your truck for work and travel long distances 3 times a week, you are better off sticking with an ICE truck. EREV's will just give you more expenses, inefficiencies, and problems. Besides that, you will now be stopping at both charge stations and gas stations.

So to be clear. I've had ice, erev and bev vehicles. From now on out, I personally will be going BEV only. But I also understand there are people that use their trucks differently than me and I wouldn't recommend a BEV to them. For 95% of the cases, I would either recommend a BEV or ICE. I would only recommend an EREV in very specific use cases and even then, I would end with, good luck.

 

[On the Road with Ralph]

Everyone has their own unique use case. I agree with you 100%. For me the extra stop here and there for the few long distance trips I make is well worth the benefits I gain from having an EV. That comment was directed to those that don't feel that way.

Since your response was positive and constructive, let me amplify mine:

I drive long distances mostly for purpose, not vacations. I carry A LOT of expensive, battery-powered gear with me - computers, cameras, drone, power tools, etc. - and the frunk is a godsend. I can store my stuff securely, out of sight, in a space where I can also plug in the chargers. I could not do any of that with a gas powered truck.

I need a truck bed because I often carry stuff between destinations, or when I am at a destination, and the bed is invaluable for that. I couldn't make an SUV work, regardless of powertrain.

I don't often carry people, but I take full advantage of the huge rear seating area for things like clothing and files.

As for range, I am fond of saying that it is NOT determined by the battery, but by my bladder. The EV charging situation on virtually all major travel routes has improved to the point where there are usually multiple choices for charging when I reach my physiological limit. Combining a rest stop (or a meal) with charging a vehicle makes for efficient travel. And I have intentionally crossed several charging deserts (both real and metaphorical) without difficulty or stress.

There is one more use case that my Lightning performs brilliantly: As a mobile platform for my astronomical expeditions. It can take me, a fellow observer, all the ridiculous equipment and powers it when we get there. Here is a shot from my set-up for the 2024 total solar eclipse:

 

[Timeless Epoch]

I feel GM made the idea of a BEV truck with a range extender obsolete. Perhaps Stelantis came to the same conclusion.

 

[Stalemate]

Those jokers better refund my deposit lol. Called them today and got the typical wait for a person music, then after about 5 mins of being reminded to stay on the line it goes to a voice mail box ughh.

I called them a couple months ago on a Saturday not realizing they were closed. Figured I would call them during the week when I got around to it. Much to my surprise, THEY called ME the following Monday - and I hadn't left a message. They were very nice about refunding my $100, and I got the impression that they had been processing a lot of refunds.

 

[WXman]

Just a wise business decision by RAM. They've seen how Ford has bled money with the Lightning, which is why Ford is removing content from the Lightning every 6 months. They've seen GM's dismal sales numbers. The regulatory environment has changed and they are in a position where they need fast cash to get back on track after their former CEO tried to run it straight into the ground, and they are going after it with V8s in everything again. Once they turn it around next year and start getting cash coming in again, they can work on the range extended version of the truck. But for now they just need to sell vehicles, lots of vehicles.

 

[swajames]

Just a wise business decision by RAM. They've seen how Ford has bled money with the Lightning, which is why Ford is removing content from the Lightning every 6 months. They've seen GM's dismal sales numbers. The regulatory environment has changed and they are in a position where they need fast cash to get back on track after their former CEO tried to run it straight into the ground, and they are going after it with V8s in everything again. Once they turn it around next year and start getting cash coming in again, they can work on the range extended version of the truck. But for now they just need to sell vehicles, lots of vehicles.

A wise business decision from an organization circling around in the flushing waters of the automotive crapper primarily because it is known for making bad ones? Stellantis make a grand total of one vehicle that's competitive. And it's a minivan.

 

[WXman]

A wise business decision from an organization circling around in the flushing waters of the automotive crapper primarily because it is known for making bad ones? Stellantis make a grand total of one vehicle that's competitive. And it's a minivan.

Um...

They had the #2 pickup truck in all the land, passing the Chevrolet brand for the first time in history.

They had the #1 muscle car in all the land, despite Ford and GM having much newer models on sale.

They had the top SUVs with Wrangler and Grand Cherokee both selling like hotcakes.

They were dominating in every segment. Not just competitive, but dominating.

And then the new CEO said three years ago "NO MORE HEMI" and sales went down the tube. Their push to go electric in the entire portfolio literally came close to sinking the company. Thank goodness they pushed that guy out and brought back the guys who know how to sell cars just in time.

 

[swajames]

Um... No. They make a good van. The rest is why they are likely going out of business.

 

[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

In a few years, new battery technology (Sodium ION for example) will make the range and charging time issues of EVs practically moot.

Why do you think so?
I have two Sodium battery packs, each are 100AH packs, one 12v one24v. I bought these three years ago, and use them for service work to run inverters (before the Lightning I needed small travel 120VAC systems, that could take the winter more or less) The advantage of the sodium packs is low and high temperature tollerance far better than LiFePO4 - BUT the disadvantages are:
Higher weight per kWh stored.
Wider voltage range from low to high SOC which most inverters struggle to use the full range.
Fewer charge cycles during the life of the battery compared with LiFePO4.
Cost were actually higher for the Sodium packs, mostly due to lower volumes of production (then).

From my experience I believe the best use for Sodium Cells is stationary back up power to support utility scale loads, not so much for EV's due to lower energy density, higher weight, and fewer charge cycles.

Sponsored