OTA Updates, and the Pre-Disposition of Many Pickup Owners Against Features and Changes

RickLightning · Apr 28, 2022

I've owned a pickup for over 8 years now. I participate on a truck forum, and there's an overwhelming tilt against many new features such as Stop-Start (ICE engine shutting off at stoplight), Pro Trailer Backup Assist, BlueCruise, warnings of potential backseat passengers, etc. Many of these features can simply not be used, some you have to take action to prevent, like people spending $100 to bypass Stop-Start. Some decry the nanny state or more. It's a major affront for some that modern features exist, some even getting upset with antilock brakes...

Many EV features already are getting comments on this and other forums. People are "outraged" that the vehicle emits a warning noise when driving slowly, required by federal law, so that pedestrians don't walk in the path of the vehicle. The outrage at a propulsion sound in the cabin (that can be turned off with a toggle switch on the screen) was pretty funny.

EVs, including the F-150L, are very heavily software driven. The F-150L and the Mach-E are designed to take OTA updates. This is relatively new for Ford vehicles, while introduced some years ago it rarely happened, and when it did it was focused on Sync, not the car's actual features.

In the F-150L event on Tuesday, Jim Farley said:

"...the truck is going to evolve every night with OTA updates. In the morning, when you get in, you're going to get new features. More range, new driving modes", take advantage of cameras, ... "Every morning something's different".

Many current Mach-E owners are software/update focused, many are former/current EV owners. They live for this stuff. While some with F-150L orders are also, as time goes on more of the "I've owned a truck for XX years" owners are going to buy an F-150L, and then at some point experience what Jim describes.

While one can turn off connectivity on these vehicles, and resist taking updates, there is no way today to only take some updates and not others. For example, recently the Mach-E's brakes were "adjusted" via an update. There is no "opt-out". And, many updates include fixes as well as features, so you can't pick and choose among them. Sure, some features can be turned off, but some cannot.

It is going to be interesting watching future owners of the F-150L adjust, or not adjust, to a world where every morning something's different. I expect there will be a market for Faraday Wrap, a product I am going to patent where people can wrap their vehicles in material to prevent updates.

I setup a little poll for phone.

metroshot · Apr 28, 2022

Good to see you have posted this as it may show what the members think about OTA updates.

I for one love Ford's OTA model - it can be updated, rolled back or selectively chosen by the consumer.

I work in an IT organization where we manage our technology using OTA (MDM) and love that we don't have to intrude on the user's device physically / in person anymore.

With the pandemic, our OTA updates made our life much easier.

The only issue I have is the cloud filtering / logging of activity that we have to monitor users devices in the event they are misused, virus infected, or court ordered.

RickLightning · Apr 28, 2022

metroshot said:
Good to see you have posted this as it may show what the members think about OTA updates.

I for one love Ford's OTA model - it can be updated, rolled back or selectively chosen by the consumer.

I work in an IT organization where we manage our technology using OTA (MDM) and love that we don't have to intrude on the user's device physically / in person anymore.

With the pandemic, our OTA updates made our life much easier.

The only issue I have is the cloud filtering / logging of activity that we have to monitor users devices in the event they are misused, virus infected, or court ordered.

Just to be clear, there is no ability for a customer to roll back updates. Nor can they pick update A but not B.

metroshot · Apr 28, 2022

RickLightning said:
Just to be clear, there is no ability for a customer to roll back updates. Nor can they pick update A but not B.

Yes, very well aware that a customer can't choose updates nor roll back.

But Ford can.

Sort of like how Apple rolls out updates for their iOS and MacOS - it lets you choose: never to update, wait for approval, and automatically update.

julian · Apr 29, 2022

My 2016 Model S Tesla gets updated all the time and it's great. I mean AWESOME. The number of times my car has improved is 100+. Things like my air suspension got better, my mileage improved, the screen got easier graphics, the app was quicker and easier to preheat/condition the car etc... F150 folks can be dinosaurs for sure. But like every ICE car that tries to race me, feel free to get left behind cause that's what's gonna happen. And even though I rebuilt 2 5.0 Fox bodies, back in the day, I will never ever ever miss changing oil/valves etc. ever. I thought I would. Yeah, no. I am so psyched for the F150L. I don't care what others think cause I lived in the future since 2016. It's better. At least for me.

Mr. Flibble · Apr 29, 2022

I think its just luddites that object to the concept. People who would be happy with a horse and buggy because this is the way things always have been.

RickLightning · Apr 29, 2022

Mr. Flibble said:
I think its just luddites that object to the concept. People who would be happy with a horse and buggy because this is the way things always have been.

That describes many F-150 owners, at least on forums. You see mention of "nanny state", not wanting any new fangled features, etc.

Mr. Flibble · Apr 29, 2022

RickLightning said:
That describes many F-150 owners, at least on forums. You see mention of "nanny state", not wanting any new fangled features, etc.

My day job is working with logs and security, and for reasons I won't discuss on an open forum, I am intimately familiar with how to track someone in real-time with technology.

Like you, I see a lot of people on forums worried about being tracked - and they carry a cell-phone with them 24/7. It gives their position via GPS, has a microphone and multiple cameras. They have Amazon Alexa speakers throughout their house, constantly connected to the internet. IOT devices that control their homes... and they are afraid of the "nanny state".

The level of ignorance is astounding.

But the truth is, those owners are literally dying out.

Yellow Buddy · Apr 29, 2022

RickLightning said:
I participate on a truck forum, and there's an overwhelming tilt against many new features such as Stop-Start (ICE engine shutting off at stoplight), Pro Trailer Backup Assist, BlueCruise, warnings of potential backseat passengers, etc. Many of these features can simply not be used, some you have to take action to prevent, like people spending $100 to bypass Stop-Start. Some decry the nanny state or more. It's a major affront for some that modern features exist, some even getting upset with antilock brakes...

I hate Stop-Start. I've disabled it on almost every car I've owned. It annoys me on the cars where it won't stay off.

I didn't buy my F150L with ProTrailer or blue cruise...

But, I am an EV owner...

While I have Full Self Driving on my Tesla, I don't use it. I hate it. I don't think it works properly.
My Tesla didn't have the audio warning and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

So where do I sit in your buckets? And what do I think of OTA?

My take...I love it. Until I hate it.

Incremental updates are wonderful. My car didn't have XYZ, which would make it better. I'd rather get the OTA update than have to go out and buy a new car with a new feature that I wanted.

OTA gives me that.

On the other hand, I HATE when they change my UI. I now have to learn how to use my car again. I already knew how to use my car. I had muscle memory, it's bad enough I don't have buttons, not I have to lose the tactile and figure out where it's on the screen? No thanks.

How do I think people will react to it? Well...look at your phone. If you're the person who doesn't' mind phone updates, you won't mind car updates. If you've never updated your phone, you probably won't update your car - and you should be ok with that as long as it doesn't force you to update.

sotek2345 · Apr 29, 2022

My only worry with OTA updates is companies getting greedy and artificially crippling vehicles early (cut battery capacity, horsepower, and charging rate a few percent every year after say 3 years) to get people to buy new. Thankfully we haven't seen to much of that yet and what little we have (Tesla) has been stopped in court.

shutterbug · Apr 29, 2022

sotek2345 said:
My only worry with OTA updates is companies getting greedy and artificially crippling vehicles early (cut battery capacity, horsepower, and charging rate a few percent every year after say 3 years) to get people to buy new. Thankfully we haven't seen to much of that yet and what little we have (Tesla) has been stopped in court.

I am not worried about a greedy company intentionally crippling a product I own. Mostly because I don't own an iphone.

I am worried about a OTA car update that unintentionally cripples my car and stranding me in an unpleasant situation. That's why I turned off automatic updates in my MME and only accept an update after a few days (letting others be guinea pigs) and in the evening at home when I don't have a critical trip planned for the next morning.

So far MME has not had a crippling update. However, FordPass had a handful of updates that either broke some feature or made the app totally unusable.

Yellow Buddy · Apr 29, 2022

sotek2345 said:
My only worry with OTA updates is companies getting greedy and artificially crippling vehicles early (cut battery capacity, horsepower, and charging rate a few percent every year after say 3 years) to get people to buy new. Thankfully we haven't seen to much of that yet and what little we have (Tesla) has been stopped in court.

There’s also legal precedent with Apple doing that with their phones. I don’t think it’ll be an issue…

Vorador · Apr 29, 2022

For what its worth, OTA updates have done nothing but make my Model Y better. Hopefully Ford will follow suit and do the same things.

GDN · Apr 29, 2022

I'm in the boat with the Tesla guys - I've had a huge number of true improvements and innovative features added - simply by allowing the 30 minute update to happen. 3.5 years of ownership and 86 software updates. Incredible. Tesla did make a major UI update this past year, most didn't like it. Slowly they've made changes to put some things back, however overall it has been huge the added new features I've gained just from software.

Tesla has also made the news for a couple of "recalls" lately. At least one of them was fixed on every car with a SW update before NHSTA published the findings. There may be physical things come along, but the SW updates are invaluable.

Tesla has blazed an incredible trail. I'm hearing Ford is doing better with the MachE, so I'm hoping they will keep good SW teams innovating and updating based on the automatic vehicle data feeds they capture.

If you've never heard of Teslafi - I'm going to truly miss it. It is my understanding Ford has not released enough of the API for 3rd parties to catch the charging stats and some other things Teslafi can collect, but they have become invaluable at helping me track aspects of my car.

I've got details of all 86 SW updates to my car.

Ford F-150 Lightning OTA Updates, and the Pre-Disposition of Many Pickup Owners Against Features and Changes Screen Shot 2022-04-29 at 11.34.02 PM

Nick Gerteis · Apr 30, 2022

RickLightning said:
I've owned a pickup for over 8 years now. I participate on a truck forum, and there's an overwhelming tilt against many new features such as Stop-Start (ICE engine shutting off at stoplight), Pro Trailer Backup Assist, BlueCruise, warnings of potential backseat passengers, etc. Many of these features can simply not be used, some you have to take action to prevent, like people spending $100 to bypass Stop-Start. Some decry the nanny state or more. It's a major affront for some that modern features exist, some even getting upset with antilock brakes...

Many EV features already are getting comments on this and other forums. People are "outraged" that the vehicle emits a warning noise when driving slowly, required by federal law, so that pedestrians don't walk in the path of the vehicle. The outrage at a propulsion sound in the cabin (that can be turned off with a toggle switch on the screen) was pretty funny.

EVs, including the F-150L, are very heavily software driven. The F-150L and the Mach-E are designed to take OTA updates. This is relatively new for Ford vehicles, while introduced some years ago it rarely happened, and when it did it was focused on Sync, not the car's actual features.

In the F-150L event on Tuesday, Jim Farley said:

"...the truck is going to evolve every night with OTA updates. In the morning, when you get in, you're going to get new features. More range, new driving modes", take advantage of cameras, ... "Every morning something's different".

Many current Mach-E owners are software/update focused, many are former/current EV owners. They live for this stuff. While some with F-150L orders are also, as time goes on more of the "I've owned a truck for XX years" owners are going to buy an F-150L, and then at some point experience what Jim describes.

While one can turn off connectivity on these vehicles, and resist taking updates, there is no way today to only take some updates and not others. For example, recently the Mach-E's brakes were "adjusted" via an update. There is no "opt-out". And, many updates include fixes as well as features, so you can't pick and choose among them. Sure, some features can be turned off, but some cannot.

It is going to be interesting watching future owners of the F-150L adjust, or not adjust, to a world where every morning something's different. I expect there will be a market for Faraday Wrap, a product I am going to patent where people can wrap their vehicles in material to prevent updates.

I setup a little poll for phone.

Thanks for setting up the poll, I think the results couldn’t be clearer. So, you’re basically talking about a tinfoil hat that’s big enough for the whole truck, right?

OTA Updates, and the Pre-Disposition of Many Pickup Owners Against Features and Changes

Will you take steps to prevent your F-150L from receiving over the air updates?

I currently own an F-150, plan on buying an F-150L, and am fine with the OTA update concept

I currently own an F-150, plan on buying an F-150L, and am NOT fine with the OTA update concept

I do not currently own an F-150, plan on buying an F-150L, and am fine with the OTA update concept

I do not currently own an F-150, plan on buying an F-150L, & am NOT fine with the OTA update concept

None of the above

RickLightning

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metroshot

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RickLightning

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metroshot

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julian

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Mr. Flibble

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RickLightning

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Mr. Flibble

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Yellow Buddy

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sotek2345

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shutterbug

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Yellow Buddy

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Vorador

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GDN

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Nick Gerteis

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