How Much Battery Capacity And Range Has My Ford F-150 Lightning Lost After 3 Years and 38,000 Miles?

[jthiesse13]

What app are you using? I've been happy with CarScanner

I bought the OBDLinkMX+ and figured I need to use their app.

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[RickLightning]

That's what the video chapters are for. Just click "conclusion", and the video is only 2 minutes long

Good point. However, in general I don't watch videos at all. I have watched quite a few of yours, and some of the Out of Spec, earlier in my EV life, but don't any longer, too much time wasted. Much more productive to waste my time online...

Seriously though, I've been using forums and before that bulletin boards since around 1983 to learn about things, and then pass knowledge out that I've learned. Computers, homebrewing, vehicles, ... When you make a video, the minions watch it, and report back to me on the forums, so I get the knowledge without the time invested.

 

[RickLightning]

One of the huge benefits of using CarScanner, which costs under $5 for the PRO version as I recall ( the free version eventually wont' show any data) is the ability to see data that matters.

One of the most important pieces of data is ENERGY, i.e. the amount of available energy you have. Why? Because then it's math - Energy x Efficiency = range. Period.

On New Year's Eve of 2023, we were on our way back from Florida. Topped off in Ohio during the start of a snowstorm. Helped a woman get her charger working (credit card was bad), then my hands were numb. Instead of charging to 95% to get home, I think I did 85%.

Storm got worse. Headwind. Pulled off to charge at brand new Pilot/Flying J. Their network had just crashed nationwide. Can't charge...

Charger up the road say 12 miles (from memory, I posted it on Mach-E forum, and maybe here). Cannot make it with my 5% or whatever I had. CarScanner shows energy. Did math of efficiency at 40mph, drove on highway with hazards on hugging the side, made it with like 1% battery, but CarScanner showed me the data that said I would make it.

It's the ONLY app I have ever paid for.

Other valuable fields:

Coolant Heater Power
EV Charger Power
HvBT (battery temp, use with SOH to see if it's 77F)
ChgOA and OAR (charger offer and charger requested, to see what's throttling your speed, the charger or the car).
EV Instant Consumption (because the car shows average and you want to know if you're getting worse or better, helpful when a headwind comes up)

 

[chl]

I have read some of the on-line articles with the headline that fast charging will not have a significant impact on battery life according to various studies, however, I have found that there are several caveats you find when you read the source material.

The caveats and conclusions that seem to belie the headlines include:

1) fast charging once in a while is not a big deal but doing frequently will have a significant impact (all the studies cited, e.g., https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-battery-health/ )

2) fast charging in hot or cold climates will increase the potential for damage from fast charging (all the cited studies, e.g., Geotab above)

3) charging below 20% or above 80% will also increase the potential for damage from fast charging (all the studies, e.g, Geotab above)

4) One study was from 2015 involving 2012 Nissan Leafs ( https://www.power-sonic.com/blog/fast-charging-battery-life/ ) which are passive air cooled battery systems and it noted that hot ambient temperatures combined with fast charging increased battery damage.

5) One study ( https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/impacts-of-fast-charging ) compared Teslas that fast charged 70% of the time to Teslas that fast charged 30% of the time, but the source of the data was unclear - was it a survey of Tesla owners or hard data from the company? A small difference was found between those groups, but no comparison was done with Teslas that only charged L2.

6) The Tesla studysaid:

"Keep in mind that the vehicles we observed are relatively young and we do not know how these fast charged batteries will continue to age. If you plan to hold on to your EV for the long haul, you may still want to save high voltage charging for road trips. Other good ideas? Try to avoid fast charging when your car battery is very hot, very cold, or at an extreme state of charge - such as 5% or 90%. All of these situations can put extra stress on the battery and the BMS....It’s still difficult to quantify precisely how much routine fast charging affects battery health long term – 5, 10, 20 years – but it’s fine in small doses."

7) Despite the headline suggesting no harm from fast charging, they all found some negative effect on health, one finding that frequent DC fast charging may degrade batteries faster than slower AC charging in hot climates:

"we saw a strong correlation between high-temperature climates, frequency of high-power charge usage and battery decline." and "the use of DCFC equipment does appear to significantly impact the rate at which batteries degrade. Rapidly charging a battery means high currents, resulting in high temperatures, both of which strain batteries. In fact, many automakers suggest drivers and fleet managers limit the use of DC fast charging to prolong their electric vehicles’ battery life."

Basically, I think the bottom line is what Ford and other EV makers say in their material about ensuring battery health - fast charge infrequently, charge over 80% infrequently and only when necessary, let the battery cool down before recharging, don't go below 20% charge, avoid fast charging in hot conditions, protect the battery from low and high temperatures.

Even though these on-line articles are relatively recent, there seems to be very little change in the recommendations or findings of the source material.

One notable fact however is that LFP batteries are less prone to damage from DCFC.

 

[Maxx]

Questions to anyone with answers:

Let’s say you know you are getting home with 5% SOC. You don’t want to leave it at 5% once you get there longer than you have to but you don’t want to charge the battery when it is hot either.

• Do you do level 2 charging immediately or wait a couple of hours? Which is more damaging to SOH?
• If you use android auto, how do you cool the battery before getting home? If you put a charger near home as destination, does it precondition the battery? Do you have to use Ford navigation for that to work? And once the navigation sees you are not listening to it and going off course, does it still precondition? Have any of you looked at car scanner/OBDII while you are trying stuff to see what the best battery cooling practice is (I am not talking Arizona summer cooling, just moderate a few degrees cooler than it would be otherwise).
• Do you drive in sport mode on hot days to lower the threshold of cooling? Does navigating to a DCFC location lower it even more?
• when you get home with the hot battery, if you plug-in , I assume the truck will start cooling the battery if it sees temps are above certain levels. I have never seen mine delay charging. Have you? I have heard a periodic buzzing sound but I am not sure what that is. Do you know how cooling during Level2 charging works?

 

[kstype]

Hi,

I never did a baseline like Tom did but I now have almost 3 years on mine and 75,000 miles and my SOH from OBD is 97% and generally when I charge to 100% it still showing 320 or more miles.

I know the SoH varies based on a number of factors just like range but wanted to throw this info out there regardless.

@tommolog - curious what your OBD HVB SOH shows?

 

[TaxmanHog]

I used car scanner for the first time today, this is my Soh [97.5 %] after 3+ years at about 88% Soc

 

[Traconesu]

Always

Yes. Seldom anything positive.

 

[Traconesu]

I used car scanner for the first time today, this is my Soh after 3+ years at about 88% Soc

I'd like to see that kind of info. What scanner and model did you use to see that data ?

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Questions to anyone with answers:

Let’s say you know you are getting home with 5% SOC. You don’t want to leave it at 5% once you get there longer than you have to but you don’t want to charge the battery when it is hot either.

• Do you do level 2 charging immediately or wait a couple of hours? Which is more damaging to SOH?
• If you use android auto, how do you cool the battery before getting home? If you put a charger near home as destination, does it precondition the battery? Do you have to use Ford navigation for that to work? And once the navigation sees you are not listening to it and going off course, does it still precondition? Have any of you looked at car scanner/OBDII while you are trying stuff to see what the best battery cooling practice is (I am not talking Arizona summer cooling, just moderate a few degrees cooler than it would be otherwise).
• Do you drive in sport mode on hot days to lower the threshold of cooling? Does navigating to a DCFC location lower it even more?
• when you get home with the hot battery, if you plug-in , I assume the truck will start cooling the battery if it sees temps are above certain levels. I have never seen mine delay charging. Have you? I have heard a periodic buzzing sound but I am not sure what that is. Do you know how cooling during Level2 charging works?

I return home from road trips with 5% or less regularly.

My regular charge times are when I have excess solar, so it’s usually not going to charge until the next morning.

There have been times when I needed to charge up before another trip the next day. I just tell the truck to start charging. The battery thermal management will take care of keeping the battery safe. The battery has never been very hot according to the low-information gauge on the IPC. I still have my OBD-II reader, but rarely use it.

If I was really concerned because the battery was hot, I would program my L2 charger to only give up ~10-20 Amps overnight and then plug in. It would help cool the battery and would still allow some charging. The next morning I would up the amperage for faster charge.

 

[TaxmanHog]

I'd like to see that kind of info. What scanner and model did you use to see that data ?

Veepeak OBD CHECK BLE+ Car Bluetooth OBD2 Scanner
Android version of Car Scanner app.

 

[Maxx]

I return home from road trips with 5% or less regularly.

My regular charge times are when I have excess solar, so it’s usually not going to charge until the next morning.

There have been times when I needed to charge up before another trip the next day. I just tell the truck to start charging. The battery thermal management will take care of keeping the battery safe. The battery has never been very hot according to the low-information gauge on the IPC. I still have my OBD-II reader, but rarely use it.

If I was really concerned because the battery was hot, I would program my L2 charger to only give up ~10-20 Amps overnight and then plug in. It would help cool the battery and would still allow some charging. The next morning I would up the amperage for faster charge.

Thanks for sharing, may I ask what your truck’s SOH, mileage and age?

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Thanks for sharing, may I ask what your truck’s SOH, mileage and age?

As of 27 August:
SoH: 98.5
Mileage: ~22,000
Battery age: ~23 months
DCFC count: >> 100
SoC at home: 95%

I haven't run my regular <10% - 100% charge cycle in the past six months.

 

[Maxx]

As of 27 August:
SoH: 98.5
Mileage: ~22,000
Battery age: ~23 months
DCFC count: >> 100
SoC at home: 95%

I haven't run my regular <10% - 100% charge cycle in the past six months.

I have been babying my battery a lot more than you have but my SOH is worse at 98%.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I have been babying my battery a lot more than you have but my SOH is worse at 98%.

Because there's no accuracy indicated with the number gleaned through the OBD-II report and Ford hasn't published any information about it, I don't trust the SoH value beyond about ± 5 points. The value reported via OBD-II is also way too precise. Based on the information available to us, my interpretation is that your 98% and my 98.5% are functionally equal and equivalent to 100%.

I can still easily get 350+ miles on the freeway and 400+ miles around town. If you're able to get the range you were getting when you bought the truck, and you're not experiencing major battery faults, then the number from OBD-II isn't worth knowing, much less stressing about.

There's an anxiety-inducing collective memory about how Pb-A and early Li batteries work that has been carried forward to the Lithium Age. Lithium batteries are far more resilient than Pb-A. The lab tests on Lithium batteries are far, far harsher than real world use. The discharge rate I experience on the freeway is less than C/4, which is significantly lower than the 1C discharge rate in the lab. The DCFC average recharge rate I get is almost always less than 1C at much less than the lab experiment temperatures. This means I can expect a lifetime well above the ~2000 cycles to 80% SoH for an NMC cell. The recharge temperatures, rates, and magnitudes during home charging are way more gentle on our batteries than lab tests.

Barring catastrophic failure of a cell due to a manufacturing defect, the battery will last longer than all other components in the vehicle.

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