Charging While Driving Works w/ Gas Generator in Bed (Range Extending for F-150 Lightning) - Testing

[ZSC100]

I think there's a hidden value to this project beyond the use of a gas generator. We might get some super dense batteries in the future, so in another decade, if a small ecoflow/bluetti device can hold a lot more kWh, it would become a viable add-on for these trucks in their old age.

Yes, thx, even now surprisingly(to me) lots are wanting to add batteries. What is awesome is that this mod does not touch the HVDC power bus, so ethically and legally IMO it does not affect the EV powertrain warranty.

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[fhteagle]

Yes, thx, even now surprisingly(to me) lots are wanting to add batteries. What is awesome is that this mod does not touch the HVDC power bus, so ethically and legally IMO it does not affect the EV powertrain warranty.

So far the product / kit is only CAN intercept hardware and optionally physically touching the AC lines into the vehicle's onboard charger (to add the rear inlet shown)? Ford might still have a beef with just these parts even. Not sure how they'd prove modification induced failure, especially if the CAN intercept was removed and the problem persisted.... But never underestimate the lengths a warrantor will go to dodge paying for something lol...

Are you planning a different version that touches the HVDC lines a la James Klafehn, or no?

 

[ZSC100]

So far the product / kit is only CAN intercept hardware and optionally physically touching the AC lines into the vehicle's onboard charger (to add the rear inlet shown)? Ford might still have a beef with just these parts even. Not sure how they'd prove modification induced failure, especially if the CAN intercept was removed and the problem persisted.... But never underestimate the lengths a warrantor will go to dodge paying for something lol...

Are you planning a different version that touches the HVDC lines a la James Klafehn, or no?

Martin is b/c he wants more than 19kW, but It would involve the HVDC bus and a DC/DC converter and a lot more development.

I'm happy this far with the 11kW and that's what I plan to continue to test because it applies to everybody.

Without getting into details of the CAN comms and the way the BECM monitors things like temp and electrical aspects of the battery, there is really no way the onboard charger(s) can damage the battery. There are so many safeties built into so many modules that even what we are doing cannot cause damage. Lastly, there are multiple tale-tale signs that Ford already planned this. I just figured out how to enable it.

 

[Shaw1984]

I’m giving this a lot of thought to beta test. The other idea that popped into my head was a improved cooking loop and pushing the charge curve up. Being able to hold 180kw longer into the curve would greatly improve long distance travel or hauling. The current C rate is about 1.3C which honestly is not a lot. Ford is being very, very conservative on their charge curve. I also think the cooling loop might be undersized which also would dictate a lower c-rate on charging.

 

[ZSC100]

I’m giving this a lot of thought to beta test. The other idea that popped into my head was a improved cooking loop and pushing the charge curve up. Being able to hold 180kw longer into the curve would greatly improve long distance travel or hauling. The current C rate is about 1.3C which honestly is not a lot. Ford is being very, very conservative on their charge curve. I also think the cooling loop might be undersized which also would dictate a lower c-rate on charging.

I would love to see someone actually experiment with this kind of stuff, the problem is most people who have the knowledge and skills to actually tinker with this stuff are real world mechanics and engineers and thus too poor to just own a Lightning as a 2nd or hobby vehicle. We actually need our lightnings to get to work every day and live our lives. If I had a Lightning just sitting in my garage to leave in testing flux, I'd have had this whole project done long ago. I have to literally put my truck together every night when done so I can drive it to work the next day

On the improved cooling, I don't know that you'll get much more beyond the % SoC thresholds as I think those rates are somewhat dead recon, but if you are getting limited below 80% then yea, totally cooling things like the cables, connectors, etc is probably where you'll see the benefit. I don't fast charge much, so I don't really have much experience with holding the high currents over long spans of SoC.

And you're correct, Ford babies the batteries, but can you blame them a massive failure of modules before the 100kmi EV powertrain warranty would really hurt their bottom line. As if warranty expense isn't already killing them ((

 

[maxwell.pappas]

Martin is about ready to take the first real road trip with this system towing, so look for that in a few weeks.

Super interested in direct DC charging while driving/stationary to use solar panels on a truck cap to basically offset all the accessory use while traveling and camping/over landing.

Would I guess also work to create a defacto extra battery pack in the bed.

Does the system you are creating only work through the AC system, or could it use DC to improve efficiency of converting DC sources of power?

 

[ZSC100]

Super interested in direct DC charging while driving/stationary to use solar panels on a truck cap to basically offset all the accessory use while traveling and camping/over landing.

Would I guess also work to create a defacto extra battery pack in the bed.

Does the system you are creating only work through the AC system, or could it use DC to improve efficiency of converting DC sources of power?

What we are doing is just supplying AC to the on board charger just as an EVSE does. So, with generators, this makes sense b/c all generators generate AC power. Going DC to the vehicle would be fairly easy, but would need a very good DCDC converter with programming or a control module to interact with the vehicle for safety interlocks and coordination. The real problem with your ambitions is that you just can't get much power from solar within the footprint of the truck. I'd guess not more than 1kW. And with a 100KWhr battery that's just not much.,, maybe 3-4kWhr/day. If you had deployable panels, it's possible I guess to get more for like camping in remote areas. I'd say if you really want to go this route just get the cheapest MPPT solar panel battery charger with 400V output there is. There's no cheap/easy way to make DC charging work unfortunately. But this is your cheapest route, something like this
https://www.tanfonsolar.com/solar-charge-controller/high-voltage-mpptsolar-charge-controller.html

You can get on the DC accessory bus very easily, just pull the frunk tub and it's all over the place.

 

[Firn]

Super interested in direct DC charging while driving/stationary to use solar panels on a truck cap to basically offset all the accessory use while traveling and camping/over landing.

Would I guess also work to create a defacto extra battery pack in the bed.

Does the system you are creating only work through the AC system, or could it use DC to improve efficiency of converting DC sources of power?

You would have to use a DC-DC converter regardless since you have to exactly match the battery voltage, so not sure how much worse DC-AC-DC is in that use case.

 

[maxwell.pappas]

What we are doing is just supplying AC to the on board charger just as an EVSE does. So, with generators, this makes sense b/c all generators generate AC power. Going DC to the vehicle would be fairly easy, but would need a very good DCDC converter with programming or a control module to interact with the vehicle for safety interlocks and coordination. The real problem with your ambitions is that you just can't get much power from solar within the footprint of the truck. I'd guess not more than 1kW. And with a 100KWhr battery that's just not much.,, maybe 3-4kWhr/day. If you had deployable panels, it's possible I guess to get more for like camping in remote areas. I'd say if you really want to go this route just get the cheapest MPPT solar panel battery charger with 400V output there is. There's no cheap/easy way to make DC charging work unfortunately. But this is your cheapest route, something like this
https://www.tanfonsolar.com/solar-charge-controller/high-voltage-mpptsolar-charge-controller.html

You can get on the DC accessory bus very easily, just pull the frunk tub and it's all over the place.

Thanks for the reply

Under no impression that solar power would be a way to meaningfully power the truck for driving- it is just that your project is very interesting in that once there is a way to provide power to the vehicle when it is underway and without using a hard-wired "station", the possibilities really seem to expand significantly.

I saw you had some videos up, and I certainly appreciate that, since it makes it easier to assess if it is something I'm willing to do to my truck. It isn't that I would ever be interested in the gas generator specifically, it is more that once there is the ability to charge with ONE thing, it means that you can charge with LOTS of things, and that is I think the unique thing about electricity that makes it more versatile long-term than ICE. I can't refine gas in my backyard, but there are a WHOLE bunch of different ways to make electricity.

Thanks for creating something that people are looking for!

 

[V8Nissan]

I like it. Many times in cold weather I'm on the ragged edge of range facing unreliable and sparse fast charging ability. Would be nice peace of mind to throw my generator in the bed for the trip home at Christmas! Would add an extra 30ish miles which makes the difference for me. Anyone worried about "storing and transporting fuel" probably worries about a lot of other things too lol. I used to haul cans of sumped jet A around daily for use in my 7.3 powerstroke. I also used to run a harbor freight generator in the bed of my 1981 rabbit pickup diesel utilizing a space heater on my hour commute and while parked at work for a block heater. Just like an auxiliary power unit on the 767s I used to work on. It was a free vehicle that enabled me to garage my 370Z roadster in the winter.

 

[ZSC100]

I like it. Many times in cold weather I'm on the ragged edge of range facing unreliable and sparse fast charging ability. Would be nice peace of mind to throw my generator in the bed for the trip home at Christmas! Would add an extra 30ish miles which makes the difference for me. Anyone worried about "storing and transporting fuel" probably worries about a lot of other things too lol. I used to haul cans of sumped jet A around daily for use in my 7.3 powerstroke. I also used to run a harbor freight generator in the bed of my 1981 rabbit pickup diesel utilizing a space heater on my hour commute and while parked at work for a block heater. Just like an auxiliary power unit on the 767s I used to work on. It was a free vehicle that enabled me to garage my 370Z roadster in the winter.

Awesome, ok just for you: I will make an Easter egg calling the generator an APU.

 

[doggod]

this is a bad idea. making the vehicle drive while charging will allow the vehicle to move while at a DCFC charge station. which will lead to someone forgetting to unplug and causing damage to vehicle and charge station and lead to fires and electrocution.

 

[ElectrifyingMe25]

this is a bad idea. making the vehicle drive while charging will allow the vehicle to move while at a DCFC charge station. which will lead to someone forgetting to unplug and causing damage to vehicle and charge station and lead to fires and electrocution.

Of course there is an extra burden of responsibility on a CWD pioneer. But Columbus didn't let that stop him, and look at what we got out of that.

 

[ctuan13]

I personally can't wait to see the finished product. In many ways, this is exactly what I've been looking for, to use on my cross country road trips while towing my teardrop trailer. Only issue might be exceeding my payload capacity, considering I already bring a lot in the way of food and supplies with me.

I've already purchased a second gas truck for this purpose, but if this were to be available by next spring, I'm far from opposed to giving it a try on my trip out west.

There were countless occasions where despite technically being able to make it somewhere, having so little margin in my range, meant I was uncomfortable or completely unable to explore, sightsee or otherwise engage in more leisurely activities that even slightly deviated from the direct path to the next DC charger.

I've been following this closely and will continue to look forward to more info in excited anticipation!

 

[doggod]

I personally can't wait to see the finished product. In many ways, this is exactly what I've been looking for, to use on my cross country road trips while towing my teardrop trailer. Only issue might be exceeding my payload capacity, considering I already bring a lot in the way of food and supplies with me.

I've already purchased a second gas truck for this purpose, but if this were to be available by next spring, I'm far from opposed to giving it a try on my trip out west.

There were countless occasions where despite technically being able to make it somewhere, having so little margin in my range, meant I was uncomfortable or completely unable to explore, sightsee or otherwise engage in more leisurely activities that even slightly deviated from the direct path to the next DC charger.

I've been following this closely and will continue to look forward to more info in excited anticipation!

the tank on generators is only 1-2 gallons so not likely to much range unless you want to stop at gas station every 15 miles or add another gas tank which would be illegal to drive on road in most states. I owned a BMW with range extender and could only get 30-50 miles on gas engine. and it had 4.5 miles per Kwh.

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