Charging While Driving w/ Gas Generator in Bed (Range Extender for F-150 Lightning) - Testing

[ZSC100]

Something is still not right, Knowing your range requires solving for two variables.


For my truck using 70mph and 2.0mi/kWh with a usable battery capacity of 94kWh it solves out to be:
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=G+=+2.0+*+(t+*+11+++94),+G+=+t+*+70


t = 3.9hr
R = 274mi

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[PJnc284]

Below assumes the 9.5kW net you had and a rate of 1.5gal/hr since you used 3 gallons over 2 hours on that trip. No degradation

100%

Speed (mph)​	mi/kWh (no gen)​	Range (mi, no gen)​	Drive Power (kW)​	Net Drain (kW)​	mi/kWh (with gen)​	Range (mi, with gen)​	Generator hrs​	Gallons Used​	​
55​	2.6​	255​	21.2​	11.7​	4.7​	460​	8.4​	12.6​	​
65​	2.1​	206​	31.0​	21.5​	3.0​	294​	4.5​	6.8​	​
70​	1.9​	186​	36.8​	27.3​	2.6​	253​	3.6​	5.4​	​
75​	1.7​	167​	44.1​	34.6​	2.2​	215​	2.9​	4.3​	​
80​	1.5​	147​	53.3​	43.8​	1.8​	176​	2.2​	3.3​	​

80%

Speed (mph)​	mi/kWh (no gen)​	Range (mi, no gen)​	Drive Power (kW)​	Net Drain (kW)​	mi/kWh (with gen)​	Range (mi, with gen)​	Generator hrs​	Gallons Used​	​
55​	2.6​	204​	21.2​	11.7​	4.7​	369​	6.7​	10.0​	​
65​	2.1​	165​	31.0​	21.5​	3.0​	236​	3.6​	5.4​	​
70​	1.9​	149​	36.8​	27.3​	2.6​	204​	2.9​	4.4​	​
75​	1.7​	133​	44.1​	34.6​	2.2​	173​	2.3​	3.5​	​
80​	1.5​	118​	53.3​	43.8​	1.8​	141​	1.8​	2.8​	​

 

[ZSC100]

Because if I'm worried about distance I'm worried about far more than a single charge/generetor section. That 80% would be down to 10% to give a bit of space for bad chargers, etc and then up to 90% which is still WELL into where the charge rate drops off.

OK, fair enough, but something is still wrong with your #'s, I'd like to see graphs that somehow relate speed in a human-understandable form, maybe just list them in parenthesis next to the X axis labels. We know speed and efficiency are linked, and we know what they are under normal conditions, maybe just show them for what your experience/guess is. Here are 2 data points from my experience that should anchor your plots.

For an SR CWD @ 11kW power unity happens at 35mph / 3.1mi/kWhr
For an ER CWD @ 19kW power unity happens at 50mph / 2.6mi/kWhr

 

[ZSC100]

I understand what you are saying eith regard to speed but I don't think it is a good metric here due to the immense variation in efficiencies that can happen.

We have a general sense of how efficiency and speed related but it does have immense variation. Specifically weight, temp, weather, and towing, all of which will dramatically affect the efficiency calc. If we say it extends range by 50% at 60mph (just throwing numbers here) then that would mandate a certain efficiency at 60mph to be valid and it would not be valid for any other efficiency value (aka towing, or winter, etc).

.
Unity shouldn't change based upon battery size, it should only change based upon efficiency, and the two battery sizes have near enough efficiency. Unity means input equals draw and our "efficiency" in this case is the draw on the system.

Correct the only reason unity is different is because the SR can charge at 11kW and the ER can charge at 19kW, You're correct it has nothing to do with battery size, but range does. And of course there are different efficiencies given different speeds for different conditions. All Lightning owners know that, that's why your range is half when pulling a trailer,,,,,,, given the same speed.

Something still isn't right about your #'s, show what equations you're using for the plots.

Here is an ER with 80% of battery getting 2.0mi/kWhr going 70 with 19kW of CWD:
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=R+=+2.0+*+(t+*+19+++(0.8*131)),+R+=+t+*+70
Range = 458mi

If you were towing with the same truck at the same speed with 19kW of CWD plug in 1.3mi/kWhr and you get:
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=R+=+1.3+*+(t+*+19+++(0.8*131)),+R+=+t+*+70
Range = 210mi

 

[PJnc284]

yeah I have to put in 100mph to get those numbers.

 

[ZSC100]

I'll look into it again, its been a while. I see what you are saying so I'll have to go back and do it again.

Thanks, I'm not criticizing you, I just want to fully understand the #'s and make sure everyone who's interested has the most accurate info. Even I have been wrong thinking about this a few times.

 

[SLOPRO]

I'll be following this closely. This unit I have linked should offer a long runtime and hold up to continuous use at 48 Amps....

Winco Portable Generator 14KW rated

 

[ZSC100]

I'll be following this closely. This unit I have linked should offer a long runtime and hold up to continuous use at 48 Amps....

Winco Portable Generator 14KW rated

Wow, only 26" tall and 14kW continuous with a Honda engine and assembled in the US. This is awesome, thanks for sharing. 82db though, ouch. If it's going on a trailer, it'll be fine but in the back of the bed it'll kill the awesomeness of the Lightning.

 

[PJnc284]

That seems to be louder than the Westinghouse 20k. This guy has an interesting set up for his fifth wheel

 

[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

I'll be following this closely. This unit I have linked should offer a long runtime and hold up to continuous use at 48 Amps....

Winco Portable Generator 14KW rated

Interesting
48A/58A max = 82% of max output (I wonder if the dB are a bit less at 80% load)
1.83 USG per hour at 82% load with 15gal tank = 8 hours run time.

Add a muffler box to quiet it down and your good to go?
edit: with lifting loops on the box

 

[SLOPRO]

Wow, only 26" tall and 14kW continuous with a Honda engine and assembled in the US. This is awesome, thanks for sharing. 82db though, ouch. If it's going on a trailer, it'll be fine but in the back of the bed it'll kill the awesomeness of the Lightning.

Winco does design, engineering and assembly in house in the US. I was looking for a genset with the iGX800 EFI engine and this was what I found I would think as you continue testing you could reach out to Winco and get the same generator with a Honda GX800i EFI engine in a proper sound enclosure to reduce noise along with some proper lifting eyes for load/unload. I'm thinking a rear receiver mounted lift would be the most practical. They could likely have the user panel prepped for you to have neat access to hardwire a 48A charger.

I just think if you are pulling a constant ~80% of rated load the advantages of these foreign built inverter generators decline. Obviously, they have a cost advantage up front but properly designed with a 15-gallon tank this generator would have endurance and run for thousands of hours.

 

[PJnc284]

Been quiet here so for those not on the Facepage, Martin just completed a 2k mile trip towing a Mustang and realized 48 amps just isn't going to cut it towing any decent load. He only averaged about 14.5 miles from the generator each leg due with an average efficiency of .8mi/kWh. One leg must've been especially bad as he apparently went from 80%-13% in only 13 miles and averaged .1mi/kWh.


Ford F-150 Lightning Owners Group
Martin Meek Jr. ·December 3 at 10:01 AM ·

***EVERDRIVE RANGE EXTENDER UPDATE***
Whats Everdrive? Look at my previous posts in the group, we explain it in detail. In short, its extending range through charging while driving. I will be posting a YouTube video on Martin Rebuilds about this entire trip soon as well.

**Brutal Honesty and Thoughts of our Everdrive Kit**
The lightning has some serious efficiency constraints that we all deal with. Everdrive definitely helps with that, and in some situations can double a F150 lightnings range. With that said, MATH IS MATH. The bottom line is this... Speed, wind and temp affect a BEV truck so much considering the poor aerodynamics. It will take half the energy added to the truck as it is consuming to make it "feel" worth it. The F150 lightning generally consumes 35kw running at 68mph (in perfect conditions), which means you need to add 17.5 kw to make it really move the needle. The lightning consumes upwards of 60-80kw while towing, so you need 30-40kw of energy to make the juice worth the squeeze.

Does Everdrive work for Towing?
The data below proves that using our EVERDRIVE kit does not move the needle far enough to be effective for long distance towing. 11kw of generator power added about 15% of range to this trip. 19kw would be roughly 20%. NOT a game changer for range extending, but a real game changer for eliminating range anxiety. Speed (wind resistance) is a killer when towing. It is NOT a linear curve for energy consumption. The faster you go the more exponential the consumption gets.

How about Everdrive not Towing?
Non-towing trips, Everdrive can be a real game changer, If you keep speed to a minimum (65 mph) and aren't in a large headwind or its "cold" outside. In perfect conditions, we can get over 450 miles from a ER lightning at 65mph, even more at slower speeds. When speed and wind are not working in your favor, Everdrive charging at 11 kwh can bring the range back to what it was during excellent conditions without a generator.

Final Everdrive thoughts!
We will continue to develop our Plug-n-Play Everdrive kit. There are still many folks who can drastically benefit from it. But if your looking to get 250-300 miles while towing by adding Everdrive and a generator, you wont. With that said, we are going to continue to explore DC generator options to give the lightning even more power to extend towing situations similar to what the EREV solutions OEM's are working on.

We honestly appreciate all the feedback and comments, good and bad, about this project. This honest transparent review is meant to level set the challenges and show everyone the TRUE results. not some inflated perfect world marketing fluff.
Zachary Scott Carpenter
Patrick Cheung

Trip Data
· Number of stops: 17
· Miles Traveled: 1945 mi
· Average Charge Speed 111.3 kW
· Average Charger Arrival % 19.5%
· Average Charger Departure % 82.71%
· Overall Average Travel Speed 59.77mph
· Highway Average Travel Speed 70mph
· Total Charging Time: 13.73 hrs

Cost Data
· Total Electric Cost $518.17
· Total Generator Cost $127.59
· Total Truck Fuel Cost $645.76
· Comparable Gas Truck Cost $398.83
· Cost Savings -$246.93

Everdrive Data
· Everdrive Energy Added 344.25 kWh
· Everdrive Miles Added 299.08 mi
· Everdrive Fuel Cost $127.59
· Charge Stops Saved 2.5

 

[ElectrifyingMe25]

Been quiet here so for those not on the Facepage, Martin just completed a 2k mile trip towing a Mustang and realized 48 amps just isn't going to cut it towing any decent load. He only averaged about 14.5 miles from the generator each leg due with an average efficiency of .8mi/kWh. One leg must've been especially bad as he apparently went from 80%-13% in only 13 miles and averaged .1mi/kWh.


Ford F-150 Lightning Owners Group
Martin Meek Jr. ·December 3 at 10:01 AM ·

***EVERDRIVE RANGE EXTENDER UPDATE***
Whats Everdrive? Look at my previous posts in the group, we explain it in detail. In short, its extending range through charging while driving. I will be posting a YouTube video on Martin Rebuilds about this entire trip soon as well.

**Brutal Honesty and Thoughts of our Everdrive Kit**
The lightning has some serious efficiency constraints that we all deal with. Everdrive definitely helps with that, and in some situations can double a F150 lightnings range. With that said, MATH IS MATH. The bottom line is this... Speed, wind and temp affect a BEV truck so much considering the poor aerodynamics. It will take half the energy added to the truck as it is consuming to make it "feel" worth it. The F150 lightning generally consumes 35kw running at 68mph (in perfect conditions), which means you need to add 17.5 kw to make it really move the needle. The lightning consumes upwards of 60-80kw while towing, so you need 30-40kw of energy to make the juice worth the squeeze.

Does Everdrive work for Towing?
The data below proves that using our EVERDRIVE kit does not move the needle far enough to be effective for long distance towing. 11kw of generator power added about 15% of range to this trip. 19kw would be roughly 20%. NOT a game changer for range extending, but a real game changer for eliminating range anxiety. Speed (wind resistance) is a killer when towing. It is NOT a linear curve for energy consumption. The faster you go the more exponential the consumption gets.

How about Everdrive not Towing?
Non-towing trips, Everdrive can be a real game changer, If you keep speed to a minimum (65 mph) and aren't in a large headwind or its "cold" outside. In perfect conditions, we can get over 450 miles from a ER lightning at 65mph, even more at slower speeds. When speed and wind are not working in your favor, Everdrive charging at 11 kwh can bring the range back to what it was during excellent conditions without a generator.

Final Everdrive thoughts!
We will continue to develop our Plug-n-Play Everdrive kit. There are still many folks who can drastically benefit from it. But if your looking to get 250-300 miles while towing by adding Everdrive and a generator, you wont. With that said, we are going to continue to explore DC generator options to give the lightning even more power to extend towing situations similar to what the EREV solutions OEM's are working on.

We honestly appreciate all the feedback and comments, good and bad, about this project. This honest transparent review is meant to level set the challenges and show everyone the TRUE results. not some inflated perfect world marketing fluff.
Zachary Scott Carpenter
Patrick Cheung

Trip Data
· Number of stops: 17
· Miles Traveled: 1945 mi
· Average Charge Speed 111.3 kW
· Average Charger Arrival % 19.5%
· Average Charger Departure % 82.71%
· Overall Average Travel Speed 59.77mph
· Highway Average Travel Speed 70mph
· Total Charging Time: 13.73 hrs

Cost Data
· Total Electric Cost $518.17
· Total Generator Cost $127.59
· Total Truck Fuel Cost $645.76
· Comparable Gas Truck Cost $398.83
· Cost Savings -$246.93

Everdrive Data
· Everdrive Energy Added 344.25 kWh
· Everdrive Miles Added 299.08 mi
· Everdrive Fuel Cost $127.59
· Charge Stops Saved 2.5

My hat is off to you guys for the great trial you conducted on your Everdrive system. Your trailer load was quite heavy. I hope you'll do some more testing pulling a boat or something more common. However, you definitely found the upper limit.

On a positive note, the range extension for just driving is great.

I'm still interested in purchasing this system when you get all the wrinkles ironed out.

Thanks

 

[PJnc284]

Think Martin has a bass boat that he's towed all over the place with a Lightning. That or maybe a small camper might yield better results. I'd offer to be a guinea pig since we fish year round here in SE NC but my results would probably be worse than the car trailer even if I could run at 80 amps. I only got .8mi/kWh at 60 on a warm day the one time I tried.

 

[hturnerfamily]

While I applaud the idea, and the testing prowess, to see if this 'works', I have some thoughts:

- With my '22 LIGHTNING PRO SR already so quiet, where almost any road noise now is easily heard, I would hate think that I had to endure the constant noise of an running generator engine, right behind me, for hours on end.

- it seems like a lot of cost, modification, and loss of bed usage to be able to simply 'extend' range, with EV trucks already expensive, on their own. Any range extension equipment is also not going to be at a low cost.

- if the idea is to not have to Stop and Charge, or even Stop and FUEL, it sounds plausible, but, likely the owner may also be compelled to carry MULTIPLE gas cans, or, if they are REALLY smart, why not go ahead and install a secondary bed-mounted FUEL TANK, with Pump?

Now we're getting somewhere... building an F250 Superduty, with a little EV power, just in case.

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