Ford app says 100% charged when setting is at 85%

[TaxmanHog]

Down to 2.2 now. This is the lowest it’s gone in the last 30 mins or so. Blue light is still blinking on charging port.

The BMS & Charging system are commanding this slow rate of charge, I wonder if it's because of the condition of the HVB module or other issues? Only the technician can get to the bottom of this problem

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[Pitbull2o08]

I'd recommend changing it to 100% for 2 reasons.
1) If it is a bad cell module, my intuition says that the charge speed will remain the same and drop to negligible at or near 87% which is over your current limit of 85%.
2) If it is potentially salvageable the rate should stabilize at roughly ~1 kw to balance the pack.

Yeah it’s stabilizing at 1.6 now.

 

[Pitbull2o08]

Aaaaand 100% again.

 

[chriserx]

Aaaaand 100% again.

I know that you aren't likely to have tried this, but I wonder if anyone that has had this issue or a 'bad' cell module has tried a very deep discharge then a full recharge. The logic being as the modules deplete the variation closes to discharge depth between the modules. Then a full recharge would allow the modules to rebalance closer to spec. Depending on both hardware and software capabilities, this could be either helpful or harmful.

If the pack is physically hardwired into it's series/parallel configuration, doing a deep discharge could at best, throw a wrench. At worst, allow an over discharging event. On charging if the module was allowed to over discharge, this is quite dangerous and could cause a fire.

If the paralleled modules are run through some sort of modulator that would not allow a deep discharge event, what I suggested may help. FWIW I do at least suspect this to be the case as the pack depletes, the motor output does fall and it shows on the instrument cluster. This could be a response to pack voltage, module dropouts or a combination of both.

In any event, if you take it to the shop, they are almost certainly going to determine a failing module, I just wonder if it is due a fault with the actual battery or due to a BMS/hardware quirk.

 

[chl]

There is a battery module failure that doesn't display any error messages on the IP. In my truck, everything looked normal if I only charged to 85%. If I tried charging more than 85% it would display 100% until the truck was started at which point it would immediately drop to about 87%.

My dealership had a very hard time diagnosing the bad module. Since their were no failure messages or DTCs they were reluctant to run a battery module health test, which is what ultimately is how they figured it out.

I don't know if this is your problem but thought it worth mentioning. I suggest attempting to charge to 100% and observing the SOV behavior after start. If you can't set 100% in the app you may have luck doing it in the truck.

That's what I was going to say. I think we saw that before in another post.

 

[chl]

When there is a large imbalance between modules, the one with a higher SOC will stop the charging when that module reaches 100%, but then the actual overall SOC level is lower because of the module with the lower SOC.

One the other end, the module with the lower SOC will stop the discharging when it gets too close to the lower buffer and report a low overall SOC, even though there may other modules with a higher SOC.

If the BMS cannot balance the modules with differing SOCs, then there is something wrong with the battery, probably a bad module.

This behavior was reported in another post here some time ago.

When the SOC seems to fluctuate like that, it is a sign of a large imbalance in modules.

If you did not just have a module replaced, then this is an early warning of a bad module I would guess.

I suppose if the HVB BMS system is malfunctioning, the signs might be similar, but that I think is less likely...but anything is possible.

If it needs a lot of updates, then maybe one of them will remedy the issue.

Another relatively unlikely but possible issue is the 12v battery is weak and failing to accurately power the BMS and that is causing the error and fluctuation in SOC reporting. I think you would be seeing other signs of 12v battery failure as well though.

Eventually, if it is a bad module, there will be a major failure and the truck will tell you about it, reduce power, maybe leave you stranded at the side of the road.

Like others have said, the dealership should be able to narrow it down.

 

[LiteNing]

I know that you aren't likely to have tried this, but I wonder if anyone that has had this issue or a 'bad' cell module has tried a very deep discharge then a full recharge. The logic being as the modules deplete the variation closes to discharge depth between the modules. Then a full recharge would allow the modules to rebalance closer to spec. Depending on both hardware and software capabilities, this could be either helpful or harmful.

I was going to try something like this with mine when I got home from a business trip. The plan was to check for a similar “drop to zero” effect at the bottom. But after @Mpi reported in the other thread that his dealer found a bad cell, I scheduled an appointment with a local dealer for Thursday.

I would still like to do that experiment, but don’t have enough time to drive the truck down to ~10% before Thursday.

My current thinking is that the BMS (BECM) is seeing reduced capacity in one module and interpreting it as imbalance. I also noticed that the reported cell imbalance is lower at lower SOC.

 

[chriserx]

I was going to try something like this with mine when I got home from a business trip. The plan was to check for a similar “drop to zero” effect at the bottom. But after @Mpi reported in the other thread that his dealer found a bad cell, I scheduled an appointment with a local dealer for Thursday.

I would still like to do that experiment, but don’t have enough time to drive the truck down to ~10% before Thursday.

My current thinking is that the BMS (BECM) is seeing reduced capacity in one module and interpreting it as imbalance. I also noticed that the reported cell imbalance is lower at lower SOC.

More or less my current thinking on it. The module variation is most likely being calculated using voltage, which I would expect. Since the voltage curve on a NCM battery is so flat, you should expect the variation at both fully charged and discharged to have the widest variation percentage. Now that I type that I wonder if that is what causes the wrench to not be thrown. Hmmmmm.... It's kinda a chicken and the egg problem.

 

[chl]

I was going to try something like this with mine when I got home from a business trip. The plan was to check for a similar “drop to zero” effect at the bottom. But after @Mpi reported in the other thread that his dealer found a bad cell, I scheduled an appointment with a local dealer for Thursday.

I would still like to do that experiment, but don’t have enough time to drive the truck down to ~10% before Thursday.

My current thinking is that the BMS (BECM) is seeing reduced capacity in one module and interpreting it as imbalance. I also noticed that the reported cell imbalance is lower at lower SOC.

Yes, I think that was what happened to another forum member...I guess you found that info.

Sadly there have been a number of bad modules showing up in the Lightnings.

Never had an issue with my 2012 Nissan Leaf battery - but it is much smaller at 24kWh.

 

[Henry Ford]

I booked an appt for Thursday but I’ll bring the video with me

You almost certainly have a bad module. There used to be a TSB that laid out the problem and the steps to identify the bad module but as of last August it had disappeared from the dealer system. Maybe there's a superceding TSB but if not I suggest you INSIST on a battery module health test. This easily identifies the bad module. If they don't do it you will be in for many dealership visits and frustration.

 

[Pitbull2o08]

You almost certainly have a bad module. There used to be a TSB that laid out the problem and the steps to identify the bad module but as of last August it had disappeared from the dealer system. Maybe there's a superceding TSB but if not I suggest you INSIST on a battery module health test. This easily identifies the bad module. If they don't do it you will be in for many dealership visits and frustration.

I’m sure they’re going to want to upgrade all the software that has backed up since August. So that will burn a day. Then they will finally do a module health test which would take another day. Then we have to order the module. Wait for delivery, and have inexperienced tech’s install it?

 

[Henry Ford]

I’m sure they’re going to want to upgrade all the software that has backed up since August. So that will burn a day. Then they will finally do a module health test which would take another day. Then we have to order the module. Wait for delivery, and have inexperienced tech’s install it?

If you need a battery module and if they do the battery health test, they will be able to identify the bad module in a day and you can have your truck back until the parts are in and they can schedule you. A module replacement is two or three days.

If they want to go down a rabbit hole of troubleshooting it will take multiple days.

 

[Pitbull2o08]

Maybe @Ford Motor Company can do something to guide these guys with diagnostics.

 

[TaxmanHog]

I’m sure they’re going to want to upgrade all the software that has backed up since August.

If you need a battery module and if they do the battery health test, they will be able to identify the bad module in a day and you can have your truck back until the parts are in and they can schedule you.

IIRC, reading an old alert, it suggested (required) certain updates pending on FDRS be applied BEFORE running the HVB health test.

 

[Henry Ford]

IIRC, reading an old alert, it suggested (required) certain updates pending on FDRS be applied BEFORE running the HVB health test.

I found the info I gave my dealership. It wasn't a TSB, it was an SSM. Either way, it had been deleted and not replaced at the time I was going through my issue. It doesn't mention any updates. It's possible there is a superceding SSM or TSB that requires updates.

In my case it took four visits to finally get it fixed. On the first visit they did a couple recalls but didn't see any DTCs related to the battery. They said Ford told them to update ALL the modules on the truck. That took a second visit because it takes so long to update modules. When the problem wasn't fixed I once again suggested the "BECM Battery Health" application citing the SSM below. The service manager agreed but it required a third visit. The bad module was identified on the third visit and the truck was fixed on the fourth visit.

The issue I ran into was my dealership was reluctant to do anything Ford wouldn't pay for. Since there was no current procedure that said run the BECM Battery Health application (battery module health check) Ford wouldn't approve it. Hopefully there is now an SSM or TSB so people experiencing a module failure with no DTCs can get their truck fixed quickly.

SSM 53208
"Some 2022-2023 F-150 Lightning vehicles may exhibit a reduced distance to empty (DTE) projection, a high voltage (HV) battery pack state of charge (SOC) that drops from 100% to less than 90% within 60 seconds of being driven, and an inability to reach a target SOC using the scheduled charging feature without any diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs) in the battery energy control module (BECM). This may be due to an issue in one or more cells within the HV battery pack. To correct the condition, run the "BECM Battery Health" application using the latest software version of the Ford Diagnosis and Repair System (FDRS). If any cells are identified as exceeding state of charge and/or capacity thresholds, refer to the Workshop Manual (WSM), Section 414-03A High Voltage Battery, Mounting and Cables > Diagnosis and Testing > High Voltage Battery, Mounting and Cables - Electric > Pinpoint Test AP > Step AP4 and continue diagnosis. If all cells are within state of charge and capacity thresholds or DTCs are present in the BECM, refer to the WSM for normal diagnosis."

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