Ford CEO Jim Farley Totally Regrets Ford F150 Lightning Pickup

[JRDM2]

Yep the cost of electricity varies even more by state and region than fuels. But at least in my case the cost of electricity doesn't vary day to day, week to week. There is a day time peak rate in the summer but I can easily charge off peak.

Sponsored

 

[DavidS]

As a reference point, the first gen Tesla Roadster only sold about 2500 total and still managed to create a healthy aftermarket support network including upgrades to the battery. It did help that Tesla was willing to support the aftermarket. If Ford is willing to do the same and given the relatively modular design of the Lightning, I think there’s some good opportunities out there for future battery and charging improvements on existing Lightnings.

 

[Astrotrain00]

It always flabbergasted me how both Ford and Tesla treated $100 fully refundable reservation as "convertible demand". When I placed my $100 deposit on the first day of reservations, my thought was "it's a $100 refundable... what's the risk" maybe the stars will align and I can buy one. The stars did align for me luckily, but I totally understand why it didnt work for others.

Also as someone that (may or may not) have been involved in the supply chain for the Lightning, I sure love that Ford over bet, it was one of the big stars that aligned.

Its an amazing vehicle but I think Ford waited too long to cut bait, they will learn from it and hopefully apply that the UEV and then get back to a Full Size performance truck in the future with a profitable path.

Re: full-size truck in the future. Maybe I'm over (under?) thinking it, but I wouldn't be surprised if they launch the EREV on an updated platform, it sells well, and then a year or two into that offer it in a BEV option. Take out the motor, put some plastic in to give us back the frunk and add some modules on the bottom.

 

[luebri]

Re: full-size truck in the future. Maybe I'm over (under?) thinking it, but I wouldn't be surprised if they launch the EREV on an updated platform, it sells well, and then a year or two into that offer it in a BEV option. Take out the motor, put some plastic in to give us back the frunk and add some modules on the bottom.

Yea... just spitballing, but this is my hope how it plays out. Do the write offs now knowing there is no reason to hemorrhage more money the next few years. Feel out the EREV full size market / buyer and hopefully make some profitability progress with EUV platform that can be applied to a Full size (it will be expensive) real BEV truck... Maybe 2032 or so they are ready to take another crack at Full size BEV.

 

[Astrotrain00]

Yea... just spitballing, but this is my hope how it plays out. Do the write offs now knowing there is no reason to hemorrhage more money the next few years. Feel out the EREV full size market / buyer and hopefully make some profitability progress with EUV platform that can be applied to a Full size (it will be expensive) real BEV truck... Maybe 2032 or so they are ready to take another crack at Full size BEV.

Sold! I might be in a Rivian after my lease but I'd give the new platform another crack if it was full BEV.

 

[ka-chow]

I came here to mention the same thing. Makes ya wonder.

Probably regrets canceling it this week as well while crude goes higher.

 

[JRDM2]

There’s still 53 new Lightnings on dealer lots within 100 miles of me despite having pretty good incentives. Most have extended range batteries. The incentives I’m finding makes me wish I had waited a few months but oh well.

 

[chriserx]

The lack of understanding around the engineering of a Tesla, BEFORE they went to build their EV platforms is a complete failure of Farley and his leadership. So they want to have us believe they did not research the marketplace? Seems to me they tried to leverage the 'EV market' by taking something they are already making money on, and assumed that their legions of fans would just buy an EV version at a ridiculously high price, with the least amount of engineering put into the design.

They were then shocked when sales fell off a cliff and the solution over the years has been to decontent the truck and leverage large incentives, instead of just lowering the prices.

Since they are only now, seemingly, understanding their market, please consider what Tesla just did on CyberTruck.

They cut the price drastically, (albeit for 10 days) on a Cybertruck, and sold out it seems that inventory.

For Farley to just now 'understand' Tesla, or the Chinese manufacturers, is shameful at the least, and inept at best.

Sometimes, it's ok to reinvent the wheel.

 

[Jseis]

Gas prices here pushing $5.00/gallon and electricity at $.064/kWh. Do we care about diesel or gas prices anymore? Nope. The MME and Lighting have a combined 120K+ miles between them and have saved us serious $$$.

When I bought my PSD F250 in ‘99, diesel was cheaper than gas. Well those days are long gone.

FYI… Farley works for the board of directors whose executive chair is Bill Ford. The Ford family owns significant controlling shares of Ford stock and runs the company. I suspect Bill Ford and Jim Farley are pretty much on the same page.

 

[Kev12345]

Yea... just spitballing, but this is my hope how it plays out. Do the write offs now knowing there is no reason to hemorrhage more money the next few years. Feel out the EREV full size market / buyer and hopefully make some profitability progress with EUV platform that can be applied to a Full size (it will be expensive) real BEV truck... Maybe 2032 or so they are ready to take another crack at Full size BEV.

you guys wait until the 2030's to get a half-assed American EV. We'll be driving vehicles with BYD blade 3 batteries by then up here in Chin... I mean Canada!

 

[Robocop]

The relevant paragraphs for anyone not inclined to click. Added brackets to clarify speaker.

The F-150 Lightning seemed to be selling well at first, but after you'd expanded to meet higher-than-anticipated demand, it didn't go as planned. Looking back at the Lightning, would you do it differently?

[Farley]I totally would've done it differently. I mean, look, we didn't know what we didn't know.

When did you realize you'd done EVs wrong?

[Farley]When we ripped apart a Tesla with Doug Field [Ford's chief officer for EVs, digital, and design, formerly of Apple and Tesla]. I was just absolutely flabbergasted. The Mach-E's wiring harness was 70 pounds heavier and 1.6 kilometers longer. We didn't know what was going on in [Tesla engineers' ] minds. But now we understand. They had no prejudice. We had prejudice. We'd gone to our supply-chain person and said, "Buy another wiring harness." [Tesla] said, "Let's design the vehicle for the lowest, smallest battery." Totally different approach.

Thank you for parsing this out in this way. I'm not sure I agree with the other posts blaming failed marketing, or the price point, the dealers or any of that. Those points may be fair and they may be factors in the demise of this product that we own and love but the CEO isn't talking about any of that here.

I agree with the other poster who thought that not dismantling a tesla product to conduct an autopsy on their processes earlier on was a massive error. The CEO all but admitted that in this statement. It seems like Ford attacked the EV problem with the legacy manufacturer mindset - the old school approach to building old-school vehicles - without considering if there was a better way to do things. It seems like they didn't consider if there could be a better way of doing things at all. They for sure rested on their laurels a bit whatever those laurels are.

The statement about the Mach-E's wiring harness seems to say it all: their strategy was inefficient, bloated and expensive without them realizing it. They then realize this is a monumental blunder that probably cuts right to the philosophical core of all of the research and development they've been doing under the old way of thinking, so that could also be why they killed the T3 project despite all the pomp and circumstance about it. To write all of that off and walk away is unthinkable, and yet they did it. They realized their "approach" had to change and they said it themselves aloud publicly. An elekrek article I read about this that uses the exact same quotes mentions that they even learned new stuff about placing things like clips and fasteners so less of them could be used overall leading to lower manufacturing costs. This is bean counting on a psychopath level.

So it makes sense they would kill the Lightning but not also killing the Mach-E makes less sense to me in this context. Whatever.

At first I was trying to be optimistic about this, thinking Ford would learn and better themselves and the future products. But in reality they've realized the floor is way lower than they ever could have imagined and now their minds have been opened to all of the possibilities and presumably unimaginable profits given the bar is now significantly lower. They've realized how much less they can still do that people will still tolerate! this isn't good, it is awful.

If the takeaway from this is that Ford is going to weaponize the cost cutting process in this way then all of this is in fact very sad distressing news for the customer. If you have gripes about the level of quality and workmanship now, just you wait! tesla is changing the auto industry and is setting new standards but it is doing this in the worst ways possible to the detriment of everyone. Crazy price points, laughable build quality, horrible customer support and a surprisingly disposable product are the new norms I guess. They for sure will not cut costs here in favour of using higher quality materials there.

Learning from them is one thing but to cut bait with what you are doing to change direction to run behind them to catch up is madness in my opinion. This is how schoolkids fail exams. Eyes on your own paper! Don't let the unprepared overconfident blabbermouth get in your head and undo all your the hard work leading up to the big day! you got this!!!

"sigh"

 

[Stubedo]

Wonder how much it will be to "import" this from Canada?

 

[DaBlue357]

The only regret is that the American public is and has been beguiled by the capital interests of oil.... for how long now?

Let's not fool ourselves that a viable and profitable BEV truck isn't possible. It is inevitable.

Battery tech/efficiencies in design/economies of scale will come together in a few years and instantly cannibalize the entire market including EREV.

I have a hard time believing that Ford is this naive though. I think cancelling the Lightning and this talk about EREV is just short term smiley face for the American public. The have to be hedging a future of their flagship product and protecting their market share.

 

[JMD359]

Really who cares if he regrets it ? How could he not? It’s been a financial disaster for ford, most of which they brought on themselves for bringing to market a truck that couldn’t be produced at a profit and for selling it thru existing Ford dealers who were clueless about the product and who were taking advantage of customers with insane cap cost adjustments of 10-20k over sticker .

 

[WillGrey1907]

Not even Tesla has made a truck that can fly down the highway at more than 2.5mi/kWh. It’s a bit foolish to expect a vehicle with the frontal area of a full-size truck to be efficient! That’s not why we buy full-size trucks, ICE or electric. The Lightning was a technological success, and a marketing failure. Of course, the price of gasoline falling to historic lows in 2025 made EVs less attractive, at least to those who weren’t buying them to save the planet.

EVs sure do look good with gasoline prices spiking through the roof at the moment. Can't do much about short-sighted buyers. We've been through this with the 2000s SUV craze as well. Once gas spiked many regretted getting a gas guzzler.

Sponsored