Telematics locked - does this mean my ‘24 Flash is enrolled as a fleet vehicle?

[RickLightning]

Is the topic not relevant because it was from 6 months ago?

So the ONLY difference between them is the feature turned on via Forscan? Again, yes, I know you can turn on features from higher trims, that still doesn't MAKE it a higher trim, I was clear about that. Happy to hear which two trims vary only by changes that can be made in forscan



I'm sorry, are you saying you can enable Bluecruise without paying for a subscription? Simply via Forscan changes?

Again, which individual feature, or set of features, that can be enabled by forscan would be the same as something you could pay for. I know you could get them in higher trims, but you also get a LOT of other things in higher trims too, not just features enabled via forscan.

So your argument is that if I can turn on say 8 features from a Platinum in my Lariat, but I can't get the different metal trim and seats, that I don't have a Platinum and therefore Ford hasn't lost any money? Umm, ok.

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[RickLightning]

Again, a feature FROM a higher trims is NOT the same as HAVING a higher trim. Nobody who turns on one, two, or five software features would have ever paid for the higher trim simply for those features alone

There are people who literally spend thousands converting lower trims to higher trims. Nowhere near the number that just do a few tweaks, but there are many. I was on an F-150 forum for 10 years, and it was shocking how much people paid to make say an XLT into a Lariat.

 

[PJnc284]

Yes, converting. CONVERTING. And it isn't folks who could have purchased the higher trim in the first place, and RARELY is it a FULL conversion, its putting features from the higher trim, not a full conversion.

Putting acc on a pro isn't the same as buying an XLT, I know, I have a pro and have looked at doing the mod. The reason I bought the pro instead is for a FRACTION of the cost of a higher trim I could have the lower trim and add the features I cared about. That's me, but it is exceedingly rare for someone to do a full conversion, and I have never seen it from someone who could have bought the higher trim new

BTW, that still isn't software changes alone

yeah those modifying heavily would be in the minority. Some just don't want the added electrical/mechanical failure points of higher trims (see moonroof and lightbar problems) either.

 

[rugedraw]

I'm sorry, are you saying you can enable Bluecruise without paying for a subscription? Simply via Forscan changes?

Again, which individual feature, or set of features, that can be enabled by forscan would be the same as something you could pay for. I know you could get them in higher trims, but you also get a LOT of other things in higher trims too, not just features enabled via forscan.

If the vehicle has the hardware for BC but no subscription, you can enable it with FORScan. Same thing with other Ford connected services.

If the vehicle does not have the hardware for BC, you can add it and force it to work. I know of at least one person that did it on the F150 forum, but the guy was/is a software engineer for the military. He wrote software for all kinds of planes and had above average knowledge of these things.

I work for Jaguar/Land Rover now....I have for almost ten years. On certain Land Rover products, they are all built with cooled seats, configurable ambient lighting, and a few other features that unless you pay for the feature in the MSRP (not subscription based), they are disabled. However, if you have the FORScan equivalent for those vehicles, you can enable them locally on the modules and not pay for them.

The Range Rover and Range Rover Sport come with an optional 4.4L turbo V8 that makes 530hp. The SV version of those vehicles has the same engine but it makes 626hp. All it takes is a simple config change in the PCM and you can turn the 530hp engine into the 626hp version.

 

[PJnc284]

Anything is possible with enough time/ingenuity. Look at what Martin and Zach (@ZSC100 ) are doing with everdrive. Believe Martin also managed to fool BC to working while towing but said it was twitchy.

 

[bc1]

Interesting conversation here. If I follow Rick's theory on forscan, then it appears to me he is confessing to stealing remote start from Ford since he didn't pay for it when he bought it. However I follow what Firn is saying about just using what is available out there on forscan as an add on conversion. I had to buy a laptop computer to load the forscan program which is all part of an expensive conversion process. Adding Glare free lights or whatever to my Flash doesn't allow me to sell it as a Lariat or Platinum however. Adding my own bed coating doesn't make me take anything away from Ford because they sell bed coatings as a factory addon.

That said, the conversation may be moot as the Lightning in all trims is no longer being manufactured and sold by Ford. It also appears that they are giving Blue Cruise away to many Lightning owners as an enticement so the purported value of Blue Cruise is questionable. I still have another 6 months left on mine but I'm not sure it is used enough to be worth paying too much for. With all the high winds in Kansas, I have to keep my hands on the wheel going by trucks anyway and lane centering is already doing the work for free.

That said, if the Blue Cruise code is out there somewhere on the dark web, the least they could do is add it to a porn site to make it worth looking for.

 

[bc1]

Well I was told off this weekend at the cars and Coffee.. By a Ford rep. They told me I had no business helping anyone. Poor guy had been trying for months to get help. I pulled out my computer and all the sudden FOrd engineers were coming in on Helicopters.

They told me to leave him alone and their engineers would help him out.

He messaged me after So ill wait and see if they actually get him sorted out or not but he had been trying for months to get help. No one from Ford gave him the time of day. Jesse gets his lap top out and its Defcon 5.

All I wanted was to help the guy. I never seen anything like it. I thought they were going to throw me out. Had two guys following me around the rest of the day until maybe 9:30..

Anyways.. Glad it got fixed. I mean I dotn know much.. Im not an engineer.. as I was informed this weekend.

I suppose you could have reminded them to quit using forscan code that they teach you in third grade computer class on how to hack it. Talk about DOS and the stone ages!!!

But then they would have to send all their service techs back to the fourth grade to learn the new software and buy them a new laptop!!

Ford just needs to stick their antiquated Forscan software under their foreskin where the sun doesn't shine!

 

[ZSC100]

I suppose you could have reminded them to quit using forscan code that they teach you in third grade computer class on how to hack it. Talk about DOS and the stone ages!!!

But then they would have to send all their service techs back to the fourth grade to learn the new software and buy them a new laptop!!

Ford just needs to stick their antiquated Forscan software under their foreskin where the sun doesn't shine!

FORScan is not Ford's software, It's a tool developed by a super smart Russian software guy named Alexey Savin. Not sure the exact point of your post, but I suspect it's aimed at how Ford's vehicle software is lacking in technology/capability compared to Tesla. This is a much deeper issue and stems from the very complex distributed architecture of traditional vehicles and the fact that so many modules are purchased from 3rd parties. It is a major problem that Ford has not handled well, but it has nothing to do with FORScan.

 

[Heliian]

That said, if the Blue Cruise code is out there somewhere

It's unlikely that there is a permanent enabling of bc without paying for it.
It requires external communications to stay functional. I think Ford would be very quick to shut it down if it was out there.

 

[bc1]

It's unlikely that there is a permanent enabling of bc without paying for it.
It requires external communications to stay functional. I think Ford would be very quick to shut it down if it was out there.

And if so, then Ford shouldn't be worried about it if they check your license in the code before every pair up going down the interstate or before every update. No problemo. No reason for Ford to have Alfonse send Rocco and Knuckles to follow a guy around after coffee all day.

Also I just automatically assumed that some old, crummy, problematic, software that doesn't work right half the time and begins with "FOR" was developed by Ford engineers. My mistake.

On the other hand, maybe everyone should get a Range Rover or Range Rover Sport and hack away.

 

[ZSC100]

It's unlikely that there is a permanent enabling of bc without paying for it.
It requires external communications to stay functional. I think Ford would be very quick to shut it down if it was out there.

Just like all configuration changes Ford "interrogates" the truck occasionally and can know (if they cared) that anyone has made a change to any configuration on any module. They don't seem to care thank goodness and I honestly think that part of the reason is they can barely keep the trucks they sell working and out of the warranty shop as is, can you imagine if they started trying to police 30+ modules configurations of every vehicle sold via OTA. It would be a nightmare and I almost guarantee they would break more shit than than the cost they would loose for the few owners they would just certainly piss off.

I, as an engineer of all things both software and hardware have always operated by the idea that if the hardware and software exists within something I physically own. Then I have no ethical issues with doing whatever hacking/reverse engineering/tinkering it takes to make it work. We know that the exact same IPMA for ADAS is used on ALL trucks (all trims). So, that means that every pro and XLT out there has the full BC software on it. This is why Ford tries to nerf certain features based on omitting key pieces of hardware. A simple instance of this is you can't have ACC without the forward looking radar module, but the IPMA is there and ready with the software as soon as it sees the module. So, Ford can ethically claim the truck can't have ACC b/c it doesn't have the radar. If the owner buys a radar and installs it then Ford has no issue with them turning on ACC in the configuration, they're not going to help or promote this of course.

It will likely move more and more this way even with the nodal or hybrid-nodal architecture. Ford will sell you physical hardware (b/c that's what they do). You will always be able to tweak/modify the things they have already programmed in that are tweakable, which are known as "configuration". Sure Ford would like for ONLY their engineers and certified mechanics to change these things, but the money they lose by letting the tech savvy owners play around with configurations and hardware additions is likely negligable; and defintiely negligable compared to the operation and reputation damage they would suffer if they tried to police it.

 

[Ted23Lightning]

Just like all configuration changes Ford "interrogates" the truck occasionally and can know (if they cared) that anyone has made a change to any configuration on any module. They don't seem to care thank goodness and I honestly think that part of the reason is they can barely keep the trucks they sell working and out of the warranty shop as is, can you imagine if they started trying to police 30+ modules configurations of every vehicle sold via OTA. It would be a nightmare and I almost guarantee they would break more shit than than the cost they would loose for the few owners they would just certainly piss off.

I, as an engineer of all things both software and hardware have always operated by the idea that if the hardware and software exists within something I physically own. Then I have no ethical issues with doing whatever hacking/reverse engineering/tinkering it takes to make it work. We know that the exact same IPMA for ADAS is used on ALL trucks (all trims). So, that means that every pro and XLT out there has the full BC software on it. This is why Ford tries to nerf certain features based on omitting key pieces of hardware. A simple instance of this is you can't have ACC without the forward looking radar module, but the IPMA is there and ready with the software as soon as it sees the module. So, Ford can ethically claim the truck can't have ACC b/c it doesn't have the radar. If the owner buys a radar and installs it then Ford has no issue with them turning on ACC in the configuration, they're not going to help or promote this of course.

It will likely move more and more this way even with the nodal or hybrid-nodal architecture. Ford will sell you physical hardware (b/c that's what they do). You will always be able to tweak/modify the things they have already programmed in that are tweakable, which are known as "configuration". Sure Ford would like for ONLY their engineers and certified mechanics to change these things, but the money they lose by letting the tech savvy owners play around with configurations and hardware additions is likely negligable; and defintiely negligable compared to the operation and reputation damage they would suffer if they tried to police it.

Agreed.

 

[bc1]

Just like all configuration changes Ford "interrogates" the truck occasionally and can know (if they cared) that anyone has made a change to any configuration on any module. They don't seem to care thank goodness and I honestly think that part of the reason is they can barely keep the trucks they sell working and out of the warranty shop as is, can you imagine if they started trying to police 30+ modules configurations of every vehicle sold via OTA. It would be a nightmare and I almost guarantee they would break more shit than than the cost they would loose for the few owners they would just certainly piss off.

I, as an engineer of all things both software and hardware have always operated by the idea that if the hardware and software exists within something I physically own. Then I have no ethical issues with doing whatever hacking/reverse engineering/tinkering it takes to make it work. We know that the exact same IPMA for ADAS is used on ALL trucks (all trims). So, that means that every pro and XLT out there has the full BC software on it. This is why Ford tries to nerf certain features based on omitting key pieces of hardware. A simple instance of this is you can't have ACC without the forward looking radar module, but the IPMA is there and ready with the software as soon as it sees the module. So, Ford can ethically claim the truck can't have ACC b/c it doesn't have the radar. If the owner buys a radar and installs it then Ford has no issue with them turning on ACC in the configuration, they're not going to help or promote this of course.

It will likely move more and more this way even with the nodal or hybrid-nodal architecture. Ford will sell you physical hardware (b/c that's what they do). You will always be able to tweak/modify the things they have already programmed in that are tweakable, which are known as "configuration". Sure Ford would like for ONLY their engineers and certified mechanics to change these things, but the money they lose by letting the tech savvy owners play around with configurations and hardware additions is likely negligable; and defintiely negligable compared to the operation and reputation damage they would suffer if they tried to police it.

I agree and may even save a few bux if the hardware is available on Amazing or Fleabay.

 

[bc1]

I think it's safe to say that Ford even goes to some pains to ensure folks can't do dumb things via software. I know that although I can turn on lane centering it won't work unless ACC is available and enabled, it's locked out via firmware. That is just one example, but in spending many hours pouring through the sheets the changes are still relatively benign.

Yep. And no one has figured out how to make a software change so it will drive 200 mph either.

 

[Heliian]

Just like

I'm talking about the paid service bluecruise, not adding features.

Let me know when you figure it out.

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