Alex on Autos - Local dealer just added $10K markup on this shipped Lightning

[greenne]

One could argue that the existence of laws protecting dealerships, by definition, means that it is not a free and fair (read unregulated) market. If Ford could sell direct and people had the option of doing that or going to a dealer and paying ADM - I think you would see almost all of the ADM disappear.

One could argue that as long as there are any public/buyer protection laws at all then its not a true "free" market.

My opinion, a truly "free"(read unregulated) market is just as dangerous as a too strictly regulated one. The optimal solution is in the grey area--ensure a fair playing field without ensuring a specific result

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[greenne]

So this happened with a Mach-E order when they first came out. The person who ordered had a copy of the order summary with $0 difference between MSRP and Dealer price. Because of this, Ford changed his delivery dealer ASAP even after it was scheduled for delivery. I am combing through all the tweets and Mach -E forum because I remember this story.

Its important to remember Ford *should* be in the customer's corner on this. Leaving the "direct sales" argument aside for a minute--it hurts the brand's reputation and the bottom line(sales) + stock price if dealers behave badly. Its Ford that gets the bad press...

 

[sotek2345]

Agreed - and hopefully address any externalities that the market will not take into account.

 

[jpepper07]

Why? You can freely designate your dealer. You can even change that dealer(without penalty) if you decide the dealer is no acting fairly.

You can choose any dealer in the US-- some have chosen to buy/order from dealers in other states.

The problem is people either don't know OR are too lazy to research. Also they are under the mistaken impression they do not have choice and/or they have to choose the dealer closest to them.

There ARE dealers(lots of them) selling for MSRP. It would be an issue if these were rare and/or not out there.

At the end of the day, you can also walk away. (It sucks and I'm not saying its an easy or fair option..but it is an option. No one is forcing you to buy. No oneis forcing you to buy from any particular dealer)

It isn't that easy. I live in a small area with smaller dealers I called numerous dealers. Taking time out of day to communicate with them. Which is also not easy and they are not friendly. Smaller dealers are much more likely to scam you.

In the end I put it off finding the perfect dealer (I shouldn't have to) because I didn't think I would get a my 22. I ended up getting invited in wave 6 from my smaller dealer who said they may or may not charge adm but no confirmation. My order on ford says $0 adm. So I didn't transfer. At this point they should not be allowed to add adm. I will be very passed if they do.

This isn't fair, it is manipulated, laws protect, it is inconvenient, it looks bad on ford. So many things.

It doesn't make you lazy if you don't have the time to obsess over your truck order like we do on this forum.

We shouldn't have to play games and be more educated than a dealer to get the truck at thr price that was advertised with from the manufacturer we reserved with.

Ford agrees with ALL of this too. Which is why they are working on getting rid of dealers for the sales process. Or do you think tesla sales model doesn't work?

 

[metroshot]

It isn't that easy. I live in a small area with smaller dealers I called numerous dealers. Taking time out of day to communicate with them. Which is also not easy and they are not friendly. Smaller dealers are much more likely to scam you.

In the end I put it off finding the perfect dealer (I shouldn't have to) because I didn't think I would get a my 22. I ended up getting invited in wave 6 from my smaller dealer who said they may or may not charge adm but no confirmation. My order on ford says $0 adm. So I didn't transfer. At this point they should not be allowed to add adm. I will be very passed if they do.

This isn't fair, it is manipulated, laws protect, it is inconvenient, it looks bad on ford. So many things.

It doesn't make you lazy if you don't have the time to obsess over your truck order like we do on this forum.

We shouldn't have to play games and be more educated than a dealer to get the truck at thr price that was advertised with from the manufacturer we reserved with.

Ford agrees with ALL of this too. Which is why they are working on getting rid of dealers for the sales process. Or do you think tesla sales model doesn't work?

Yes, I did just that on the first day reservations opened on 5/19.

Spent all day contacting dealers in 3 counties.

Cost me a whole day of reservations asking them: "Do you charge ADM?" and "How many allocations for special order vehicles have you done in the past months?".

Day 2 reservation made on 5/20 -made an educated decision to select the dealer that had $0 ADM and highest number of special order allocations.

Even though there were over 30,000 other people who reserved ahead of me, I still got an invite to order because they received 50 Lightning allocations compared to the 2-5 the other dealers received.

After paying the deposit, the dealer had me sign a buyer's order before entering it into RVOP.
Being built now...

 

[EVTruckGuy]

Also, he would be the first person (that I am aware of) to have this happen to him where the ADM was added on the Ford website AFTER the fact. Surely others would have complained here if this happened to them.

I realize most people, such as yourself, have better things to do than read every single post on this forum, so it's understandable that you missed the fact this has in fact happened before.

Just because you didn't notice doesn't mean it's not happening.

There were several articles written about this happening to Mach E buyers. I was hoping it wouldn't happen with the Lightning, but that was wishful thinking.

I don't know the details of Alex's order. It very well could have included the 10k markup all along without him noticing, but that doesn't change the fact dealers are marking them up after orders are placed.

Here are reviews made within the last few weeks from other people claiming Alex's dealer added markup at the last minute on custom orders.

https://goo.gl/maps/rkuJtkg4Y1j363u27

https://goo.gl/maps/D8eLnzDr6CyssYxi7

https://goo.gl/maps/7WafkVvbTS6Xdg1W7

https://goo.gl/maps/RMqJWdiURmmUWPHr9

https://goo.gl/maps/aFaKS71CM2VUphZE9

 

[frautumn]

I realize most people, such as yourself, have better things to do than read every single post on this forum, so it's understandable that you missed the fact this has in fact happened before.

Unfortunately I too am one of those who has nothing better to do than read every post on this forum! I don't read other forums though, so this is the first time I've heard of this happening. On this thread I've now seen posts linked from google, reddit and a mention of twitter, but still none from this forum. I do believe it is happening, and I think it's pretty horrible.

 

[FordVideoGuy]

Yeah but didn't Ford say that's a non-no to their dealers? They are trying to roll out a new truck and gain EV traction - not a Corolla...

There will be once dealers opt in to the new model e contracts, starting January 1, 2024.

 

[FordLightningMan]

Ford agrees with ALL of this too. Which is why they are working on getting rid of dealers for the sales process. Or do you think tesla sales model doesn't work?

The good news about the Tesla model is you know what you are paying. There is no worry some added ADM will show up at delivery, people pay the price they saw at the time they ordered. This certainly makes for a less confusing experience.

The bad news is prices can go up at any time, including the Model 3 which saw it's price increase 9 times over a one-year period. Dealers may be impacting prices with ADM, but Tesla is also impacting prices constantly without a model year fixed price. Once Ford switches to the Tesla model, you better order as soon as you have the need/money, cause if you wait a day the price just might skyrocket.

 

[jpepper07]

The good news about the Tesla model is you know what you are paying. There is no worry some added ADM will show up at delivery, people pay the price they saw at the time they ordered. This certainly makes for a less confusing experience.

The bad news is prices can go up at any time, including the Model 3 which saw it's price increase 9 times over a one-year period. Dealers may be impacting prices with ADM, but Tesla is also impacting prices constantly without a model year fixed price. Once Ford switches to the Tesla model, you better order as soon as you have the need/money, cause if you wait a day the price just might skyrocket.

That is know different than ford. They increase msrp when market and parts are up. The difference is dealers adjust their prices day to day to match market demand. Ford and tesla may only do it quarterly.

 

[greenne]

The good news about the Tesla model is you know what you are paying. There is no worry some added ADM will show up at delivery, people pay the price they saw at the time they ordered. This certainly makes for a less confusing experience.

The bad news is prices can go up at any time, including the Model 3 which saw it's price increase 9 times over a one-year period. Dealers may be impacting prices with ADM, but Tesla is also impacting prices constantly without a model year fixed price. Once Ford switches to the Tesla model, you better order as soon as you have the need/money, cause if you wait a day the price just might skyrocket.

You know what you're paying..until Elon wakes up cranky one morning and jacks the price up by $10,000 because he doesn't like what someone said on Twitter.

Seriously, whats the difference between a $70,000 MSRP Ford(+$10,000 ADM) and an $80,000 Tesla? Answer, with the Ford you can tell the dealer to kiss off and find another dealer that will sell for $70,000. With the Tesla you're still stuck paying $80,000....

 

[MickeyAO]

If this were to occur(and I had proof of agreed upon price when order was submitted), I'd be calling the state Attorney General.

Living in a Blue State, the government doesn't take to kindly to bad business. You know, those pesky regulations...

I live in a Red State, but the Texas AG has already gone after a dealership that tried something like this. The ADM never showed up on the website, resident was informed that the dealership decided to add $10k after the fact.

 

[beatle]

You know what you're paying..until Elon wakes up cranky one morning and jacks the price up by $10,000 because he doesn't like what someone said on Twitter.

Seriously, whats the difference between a $70,000 MSRP Ford(+$10,000 ADM) and an $80,000 Tesla? Answer, with the Ford you can tell the dealer to kiss off and find another dealer that will sell for $70,000. With the Tesla you're still stuck paying $80,000....

The problem here is ADM being added on after an order was placed. If you place an order for a Tesla at $70k and the next day the price goes up to $80k, you still get your car for $70k.

Nobody wants to prepare themselves to take delivery of a vehicle at a given price point and then have their order held for an additional ransom. Some people may have already arranged financing and budgeted for a given price, and a surprise $10k is nothing to sneeze at. Some people may not even have the extra scratch to take delivery which is probably what this dealer is banking on. It's about as scummy and intimidatory as it gets.

I don't believe this will happen with my dealer, but if it does I'll take delivery, flip the truck myself the next day and never buy another Ford.

 

[vandy1981]

Seriously, whats the difference between a $70,000 MSRP Ford(+$10,000 ADM) and an $80,000 Tesla?

You have the benefit of an additional $10,000 in instant depreciation with the Ford in that scenario.

Plus the knowledge that you could have found a better deal if you had cross-shopped. Why stop at MSRP? You won't know if you found the best price unless you query all 3,000 dealers in the United States.

 

[dirtdiver]

I take the view from 50,000 ft. In my case my truck as ordered will be around $80K + lic and fees = $88K. If the dealer adds another $10K (which they said they wouldn't) then Im looking at ~coughing up $100K for a whiz-bang amazing electric truck. Also I expect I might get back $7500 in fed taxes that will bring that down to $~92K. This whiz-bang truck will be cheap to run but is going to have some down sides. Not only early adopter issues but also road trips are going to have some frustrations compared to buying an ICE vehicle. I could buy an ICE F150 lariat for ~ $70K + lic and fees= $77K. Do I want a whiz bang truck with some issues at $92K compared to tried and true at less than $80K? Also, given the cheaper to run on the electric truck - how much to save in gas? I think it vastly depends on miles per month. In my case, 1000 miles per month.

My bottom line is: Im not sure. I think with my 1000 miles/month logic would point me to the ICE vehicle if dealer adds $10K. On the other hand, YOLO.

The "funny" thing is if you believe the analysis above the $10K makes all of the difference. Wihotut the $10K it is a no brainer.

steve

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