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Recourse for Additional Dealer Markup (ADM) added AFTER ORDERING AT MSRP?

lightspeed

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I think the "difference from total msrp" and "dealer selling price" clearly represent some form of contract. The dealer had to approve the order and after approving it, those are the values they put into the system at order time. It would be bait and switch otherwise or dishonest pricing at the very least. If they were going to add ADM, that was their chance to do it.

Yes, the previous fine print said the dealer had the right to set the price. Well, they had that chance when they approved the order. If they didn't do it then, then they are being deceptive and should suffer some sort of legal consequence.

 
OP
OP

MM in SouthTX

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Well mine showed up Saturday morning. They still insisted on adding $5K ADM and $639 appearance protection package. After some back and forth Saturday and today, I finally involved a manager that I have a personal relationship with, and he has agreed to MSRP as ordered. Picking it up tomorrow or the next day.

I also made a move that I recommend to others. Get a quote for a sale of your trade-in to a dealer in town (the same dealer if they are a big chain like Autonation). Then show them the quote as a price negotiation. I got a quote for $22,500. I then subtracted 6.25% tax, and rounded down to $21,000. They gave me that price after initially offering $19,000.
 

shadycoh

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If it was me I would have taken it to the other dealer to sell and gave uncle sam the tax over the dealership that was ripping me off for 5K and the "tax savings"





Well mine showed up Saturday morning. They still insisted on adding $5K ADM and $639 appearance protection package. After some back and forth Saturday and today, I finally involved a manager that I have a personal relationship with, and he has agreed to MSRP as ordered. Picking it up tomorrow or the next day.

I also made a move that I recommend to others. Get a quote for a sale of your trade-in to a dealer in town (the same dealer if they are a big chain like Autonation). Then show them the quote as a price negotiation. I got a quote for $22,500. I then subtracted 6.25% tax, and rounded down to $21,000. They gave me that price after initially offering $19,000.
 

MoonWhaler

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I know this thread is older, but I just wanted to add that I finally got a build date and placed my order (scheduled build date 11/21). I thought I could trust my smaller dealer (Capital Ford in Hillsborough) to hold to their word - they originally told me they would just be charging MSRP. Now that the order is in...they are hemming and hawing and complaining that they actually pay Ford more than MSRP for the truck. How dumb do you think I am?

I'm arguing my case now to get something in writing to honor the MSRP. It will be a 2023 which is already ~8k more expensive. EVERY dealer just can't help but try to squeeze every dollar they can. I'd like to pin it down so I can start installing my charger and home backup. Why can't these guys just stick to their word and build business off of trust? A year and a half of waiting just to have them try to screw me over. End rant.
 

shadycoh

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might want to let them know they get 8K for taking the truck off the car hauler cleaning it and doing the paperwork that is more than fair
 


OP
OP

MM in SouthTX

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I know this thread is older, but I just wanted to add that I finally got a build date and placed my order (scheduled build date 11/21). I thought I could trust my smaller dealer (Capital Ford in Hillsborough) to hold to their word - they originally told me they would just be charging MSRP. Now that the order is in...they are hemming and hawing and complaining that they actually pay Ford more than MSRP for the truck. How dumb do you think I am?

I'm arguing my case now to get something in writing to honor the MSRP. It will be a 2023 which is already ~8k more expensive. EVERY dealer just can't help but try to squeeze every dollar they can. I'd like to pin it down so I can start installing my charger and home backup. Why can't these guys just stick to their word and build business off of trust? A year and a half of waiting just to have them try to screw me over. End rant.
Sounds VERY familiar.

This is the letter to the manager that got them to sell at MSRP.

…When I ordered the Ford Lightning that is now on your lot, Mr. ___ entered the order at MSRP, leaving the line for additional charges at $0.00. On that order it describes the Dealer Selling Price as "Price the dealer is willing to sell the vehicle for in a purchase transaction." I later learned that once I order, I can't change dealers.

____ had courted my order, saying that they would sell at MSRP. I chose to order with you. My last vehicle, a 2016 Expedition King Ranch, I ordered through ____ at your dealership and I paid MSRP. ___ was forthright and honest. I expected the same from your dealership.

Now, _____ is insisting on $5,000 over MSRP and an appearance package for $600 or so. He also insists that you will lose money if you sell at MSRP.

___ said that he talked to you, and that you sent a message to me that if I don't agree to your price by the end of day on Monday, you will sell the truck that I ordered to someone else.

I expect to walk into the dealership on Monday with a check for _____ (the price that was given when I checked out on the Ford website--see attached), and drive out with the Lightning that I ordered.

If there are small differences in taxes and fees, I will bring a spare check to adjust for those. Also, if you would like my Expedition as trade-in, the price is ___, which is $1,500 less than the Autonation Toyota quote that I have for an outright sale (see attached). That should be fair.

I don't intend to spend any more time talking about the market or Ford's "blended invoice structure" or anything else. I expect you to just honor your deal.

Please see to it that I am dealt with fairly at your dealership.


You ordered the truck. The order had a price that they agreed to when it was ordered. Stand firm, and never say that you are not willing to pay their price. That can be misconstrued as a refusal of the vehicle after delivery, which opens the door for them to sell it to someone else. Always say that you intend to buy the truck at the price when it was ordered.

Because they dealt with me in this fashion, I have had the truck a week and I only have 120V to charge it with. Like you I didn’t spend on electrical work until I actually got the truck.

As for the “lose money if they sell at MSRP” line, search the forum for “blended invoice structure.” They get 10% back if they hit all the metrics. That’s where the $8,000 comment above comes from.
 

Lime Green

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I know this thread is older, but I just wanted to add that I finally got a build date and placed my order (scheduled build date 11/21). I thought I could trust my smaller dealer (Capital Ford in Hillsborough) to hold to their word - they originally told me they would just be charging MSRP. Now that the order is in...they are hemming and hawing and complaining that they actually pay Ford more than MSRP for the truck. How dumb do you think I am?

I'm arguing my case now to get something in writing to honor the MSRP. It will be a 2023 which is already ~8k more expensive. EVERY dealer just can't help but try to squeeze every dollar they can. I'd like to pin it down so I can start installing my charger and home backup. Why can't these guys just stick to their word and build business off of trust? A year and a half of waiting just to have them try to screw me over. End rant.
What I don't get about these situations is Ford's official policy is to have pricing agreed upon and the buyer signing a pricing agreement when the dealership accepts the order. Ford is not supposed to accept the order into their system without a pricing agreement in place! Of course, it's not like they check each order with human eyeballs to see if all the paperwork is there, but this is truly Ford policy. Not just for the Lightning, but all custom orders now due to the market situation. And yet this is why the pricing is shown on your order page in your Ford account. Once the order is accepted, the dealership can't change any of the pricing details.

And if a dealership told me that they pay more than MSRP for the the truck, I would laugh in their face and probably be not so nice about it. I'm paying $1000 *UNDER* MSRP for my Lightning and my dealership still says they're making good money on the deal.
 

Amps

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They still insisted on adding $5K ADM and $639 appearance protection package. After some back and forth Saturday and today, I finally involved a manager that I have a personal relationship with, and he has agreed to MSRP as ordered.
I thought I could trust my smaller dealer (Capital Ford in Hillsborough) to hold to their word - they originally told me they would just be charging MSRP. Now that the order is in...they are hemming and hawing and complaining that they actually pay Ford more than MSRP for the truck.
Dealers seem bound and determined to make sure that every customer must have some drama in every deal. It's hard to believe that a business model completely lacking integrity with a clientele who despises them does not result in a completely failed business. Reality will hit them hard in the near future.
 

shadycoh

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I am to the point I think about 80% of the buyers just walk in say I want that how much are my monthly payments.

10% will argue a bit

the last 10% like people here study and know what it should cost before they walk in the door and salespeople hate buyers like us.



Dealers seem bound and determined to make sure that every customer must have some drama in every deal. It's hard to believe that a business model completely lacking integrity with a clientele who despises them does not result in a completely failed business. Reality will hit them hard in the near future.
 

MoonWhaler

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Sounds VERY familiar.

This is the letter to the manager that got them to sell at MSRP.
This is awesome- thanks so much. I’m definitely going to use this and lean as hard as I can to get them to do the right thing. Good advice, too, to not give the impression I’m declining the purchase. I’m sure they could make a good amount on it (there aren’t many ER available in my area).
 


MoonWhaler

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What I don't get about these situations is Ford's official policy is to have pricing agreed upon and the buyer signing a pricing agreement when the dealership accepts the order. Ford is not supposed to accept the order into their system without a pricing agreement in place! Of course, it's not like they check each order with human eyeballs to see if all the paperwork is there, but this is truly Ford policy. Not just for the Lightning, but all custom orders now due to the market situation. And yet this is why the pricing is shown on your order page in your Ford account. Once the order is accepted, the dealership can't change any of the pricing details.
Completely agree. Is there a policy somewhere I could reference stating that there should be a pricing agreement before accepting the order? I might be able to use that to my advantage in making my case.
 

Lime Green

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Completely agree. Is there a policy somewhere I could reference stating that there should be a pricing agreement before accepting the order? I might be able to use that to my advantage in making my case.
I'm sure there is somewhere, just not sure where that is. I've seen some blogs/ articles referencing this in regards to Ford trying to cut back on the surprise price gouging and why they introduced the online build submission and pricing stuff for the Lightning. Jim Farley wants to go all the way with online purchasing and all that like Tesla, Rivian and others are doing but too many laws and establishments protecting the dealership model as it is. I know he and many higher up at Ford are not happy with their dealerships and price gouging customers as it ultimately hurts the brand. Farley gave a shareholder presentation about this last month when they introduced their Model E Certification program. Because they haven't been able to get dealerships to follow the rules they're setting. They're doing what GM did with their EV program. Dealerships that want to continue selling Ford EVs must join the Model E program where they have to buy in and agree to all the new rules.

So this is as close as they can get for now. They're supposed to be setting up some Ford factory stores and service centers in some markets that will allow it, but they're still a couple years out from that. I'm sure those will just sell at MSRP... By then the market will have corrected and crazy ADM won't be the normal business practice anymore.

...Unfortunately that all doesn't help now.
 

lightspeed

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Well, looks like by dealer is going full shady on me and suddenly can't find the PrivateOffer information in SmartVINCENT (even though Ford marketing confirmed that they should be able to see it) and they added a 10K markup at the last minute. This after they promised me on the phone no markup.

With no sense of shame, they showed me an out of the door price of $113K for a Lariat ER. LOL.

They also apparently have a reputation for selling reserved cars out from under people by telling the buyer to come back in a few days to talk to the "manager" who can help them and then selling the vehicle in the meantime. I didn't know this when I placed the order obviously.

Worst dealer experience I've had in 30 years of buying cars.

We'll see where this goes since I'm going to work on getting them to honor their price, but if not, lawsuit time. This clearly bait and switch which is consumer fraud in CA.

>>Under state law (California Business and Professions Code § 17500), false and deceptive advertising is strictly prohibited. A company that violates the state's false advertising regulations could be held both civilly and criminally liable.<<
 
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Akbrian

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I ordered mine 100% online. got mine at MSRP and dealer even took off the 200$ doc fee that was on my order sheet per ford. Even though they “never do that”. Dealers aren’t doing anything to get lightnings and they receive automatic 9% profit on the sale at MSRP plus bonuses if vehicle is sold within30 days of invoice.

.I see a class action lawsuit brewing. The Order sheet makes vague reference to dealer adjustments which are not clearly disclosed at the time of order. ADM is pure profit.
 

lightspeed

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It's clearly bait and switch. In this case, they purposely don't disclose ADM because they know people would not reserve through them (in my opinion). Then they spring it on you when you show up to sign the sales papers. This is textbook bait and switch.

Class action is no good for us consumers since the lawyers get all the money. But small claims is an easy way to see if we can punish them for their fraud.

 

 
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