Ford will postpone about $12 billion in EV investment as buyers become more cautious

[lightningforum6]

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/26/ford-will-postpone-about-12-billion-in-ev-investment.html

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[luebri]

Not surprising. Demand has just fallen off a cliff. It’s going to be one of the most fascinating business spectacles of all time watching how legacy auto handles this over the next 30 years. I for one never think ICE will go away, and think there is a happy place for both, but I am surprised how fast the EV movement has hit a wall.

Reading Great grandson Ford lament about how political ev’s has become is interesting, accurate, and a shame all in one. Both political sides to blame on that one, but I do empathize with legacy auto trying to navigate that complex part of the equation.

My opinion, evs never take majority market share if it’s mostly a “climate” proposition. They need to push the performance and other benefits and footnote the climate stuff.

Test drives are the key but the problem is, if your Ford do you really want to convert a $20k profit (ICE BUYER) into a $20k loss (EV buyer) for market share if EVS may or may not be the future?!? So interesting…

 

[Grumpy2]

It will be a case of carrot or stick. If the incentives don't bring the buyers, increased carbon tax will.

 

[shutterbug]

Not surprising. Demand has just fallen off a cliff

I don't think that is factually correct. EV sales ARE growing, just not as fast as some of the fevered predictions.

 

[luebri]

I don't think that is factually correct. EV sales ARE growing, just not as fast as some of the fevered predictions.

Sales rate and % of vehicle market share rate are different but I understand your point.

 

[luebri]

It will be a case of carrot or stick. If the incentives don't bring the buyers, increased carbon tax will.

Yea, authoritarian tactics are really going to help.

 

[F150ROD]

Dealers can take some of that blame.

These are 3 ordered Lightnings just sitting there, all Lariat and extended range. $20k markup.

 

[eRockBoon]

I had a great dealer experience but I can see that dealers are holding EVs back. Tesla/Rivian have it right in that regard.

 

[Pilot2022]

Other than pure acceleration, I still don’t get the value of an EV over an ICE truck? Acceleration and torque is insane and addictive but not spending $60k for it. At $40k-$7.5k, I was willing to write a check but if I want a daily driver that checks all the boxes, hard to argue buying an EV vs a Powerboost.

pls educate me if I am missing something

 

[biers]

Other than pure acceleration, I still don’t get the value of an EV over an ICE truck? Acceleration and torque is insane and addictive but not spending $60k for it. At $40k-$7.5k, I was willing to write a check but if I want a daily driver that checks all the boxes, hard to argue buying an EV vs a Powerboost.

pls educate me if I am missing something

Where I’m at, gas is $4.50-5 and electricity is 8c a kWh. For simple math let’s say my Pro gets 2 m/kWh and a gas truck gets 20 mpg (I feel there both skew heavily in favor of the gas truck).
I’ve been averaging 1,700 miles a month in my Pro over the last 10 months. It costs me $68 in electricity vs what would be $382.50 at $4.50 a gallon. That’s over $3,500 savings a year (after taking into account the extra $225 in registration for EVs in WA).
Of course this varies by region, but doesn’t take too many years at $3,500 to close the gap between EV and ICE.

 

[Pilot2022]

Where I’m at, gas is $4.50-5 and electricity is 8c a kWh. For simple math let’s say my Pro gets 2 m/kWh and a gas truck gets 20 mpg (I feel there both skew heavily in favor of the gas truck).
I’ve been averaging 1,700 miles a month in my Pro over the last 10 months. It costs me $68 in electricity vs what would be $382.50 at $4.50 a gallon. That’s over $3,500 savings a year (after taking into account the extra $225 in registration for EVs in WA).
Of course this varies by region, but doesn’t take too many years at $3,500 to close the gap between EV and ICE.

How much extra are you paying in (purchase price - resale value) to get back $3500 per year? What is the break even point?
It is great that it works for you with low electric costs at home charging. I’m driving a 20 year old gas truck that I keep fixing and driving. An old EV truck feels like at the mercy of Ford…

 

[intensifi]

@Ford Motor Company

It’s so simple. EV adoption defunds the countries/entities that are trying to do “us” harm.

Pitch it that way to get out from under the political BS. We all chip in to defund the terrorists. That’s an easier sell. Also lose the Chinese battery suppliers!

Next, the early adopter crowd is waiting to see what comes next. The Lightning is a great truck but has range issues. Those that bought into the Standard Range battery will take a serious haircut if they try to sell. Even the Extended Range has issues because the highway range just isn’t sufficient given the current charging infrastructure.

Many of us are waiting to see what the Cybertruck range/price is before pulling the trigger on any of our EV truck reservations.

Lastly Farley shot Ford in the foot with five things:

1) Not honoring the reservation date price for those who sent in their $100. They did it for the MachEs!
2a) The ‘23s cost more and - wait for it - came with less gear making a purchase a head scratcher. Most of the ‘23 reservations were dropped because of this.
2b) The people who actually bought ‘23s at higher prices were bent over not only by the higher prices but again by the subsequent price reduction with no retroactive relief! How to win friends and influence people - NOT!
3) The ‘25 was pitched publicly too early including how great it would be with better range and lower cost. Did Farley ever hear of the Osborne (Computer) effect? All the smart people with money to spend thought: “I’ll wait for that one!” Of course sales tanked.
4) Next it was announced the ‘24 will come with the new and improved heat pump instead of resistive heating installed in the ‘22s and ‘23s! Why would anyone go through with ‘23 order when they were just told their truck is basically obsolete? Osborne effect part 2!
5) Dealers charging markup over MSRP. Sure makes it hard to compete with Tesla!

To fix some of these disastrous moves I suggest the following:

1) Let people know a longer range battery (400+ miles) will be available for the their existing Lightnings at a future date (may require removal of spare tire under truck). The price will factor in a credit for the existing battery (Which will be repurposed).
2) People who paid the higher ‘23 price will have that difference credited to the new battery price.
3) People who paid past dealer markups will have the markup credited against the new battery.
4) Parts removed on the ‘22s and ‘23s will be installed for the cost credited on those Monroney stickers.
5) Bring back Atlas Blue!
6) Make the big screen an option on ALL trims. Truck buyers want physical buttons!

If Ford takes these steps and also tells customers to not pay dealer markups going forward, the existing Lightnings will sell very well!

rant over!

 

[shutterbug]

4) Parts removed on the ‘22s and ‘23s will be installed for the cost credited on those Monroney stickers.

I got $140 credit for the removal of heated steering wheel. 10 months later I got the heated steering wheel for free. When I bought my 2021 MME, the price was reduced $600 because Blue Cruise wasn't ready. About a year later it was added in free for 1 year, then it was extended for another year.

 

[mr.Magoo]

pls educate me if I am missing something

Everyone's needs and means are different, that's why some dailies a Fiat500 and others a Hummer EV.

The Lightning is the perfect compromise for me, fits 99.99% of my driving and I think it is worth what I paid for it.

But, a part of today's challenge is also the interest rates, same exact truck would cost me around $250 more per month today compared to what I'm already paying.
That would be a tough sell for me, and I would probably not buy it again and instead look at something more affordable, or just kept driving my old vehicle.

 

[loveurdj]

All I had to do was drive the Lightning and the rest was just what everyone else want's, great to be in a free country !! Highly unlikely I will be pumping gas again.

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