I need someone to help me respond to this if possible.

[Jodokk]

What they likely didn't tell/show you is that they disconnected the ground from the truck.

Do you mean at the inlet?
Wouldn't disconnecting the ground there solve the issue of the dual grounds? I'm not an electrician, so I'm just trying to understand this stuff.

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[Jodokk]

Their reply doesn't make much sense.

The output from the Lightning is bonded in the truck - it is a bonded generator source.

So even if you have a 4 prong generator cord and inlet, you will have the GFCI trip issue because THE TRUCK IS A BONDED GENERATOR.

Their system probably will not work with a bonded generator.

To power your home with a bonded generator you need a transfer switch that switches the neutrals along with the hots. Their system apparently does NOT separate the utility neutral, which is bonded in the service panel, from the Lightning (or other generator) neutral.

With the neutral bonded in two places, the truck and the service panel, the truck will detect this ground loop as a ground fault and open the breaker for safety.

You will likely have to bypass the Franklin system with a transfer switch when using your truck to power the house.

Or use an unbonded generator.

You can't unbond the lightning - the bonding of the neutrals to the truck is done at the inverter(s), not in the outlet.

From everything I've seen this far, and the lack of anyone with a success story with the connection "as is" this does seem like a way to just get on with it.

If I may ask your (and others') opinion further, just to verify from my non-electrical background...

Since the transfer switch would land between the inlet, and the Generator Module in the Franklin, in your opinion, would either the Generac 6852, or an EZ transfer switch (could it handle the load?) be equally fine for this since only one component is passing through? Or would you suggest a different one altogether?
Thanks...

 

[chl]

From everything I've seen this far, and the lack of anyone with a success story with the connection "as is" this does seem like a way to just get on with it.

If I may ask your (and others') opinion further, just to verify from my non-electrical background...

Since the transfer switch would land between the inlet, and the Generator Module in the Franklin, in your opinion, would either the Generac 6852, or an EZ transfer switch (could it handle the load?) be equally fine for this since only one component is passing through? Or would you suggest a different one altogether?
Thanks...

Any neutral switching transfer switch would work, however...you would be BYPASSING the GEN input of the existing system when using the Lightning.

With a neutral switching transfer switch, the backup circuits are moved from the service panel into the transfer switch (that is the breakers=hots and neutrals, grounds remain where they are).

The transfer switch would have breakers for each backup house circuit, it acts like a subpanel in that sense.

The Lightning 240V 30A output in the bed is limited to 30A so the transfer switch would be one rated for 30A. There are bigger ones by you can't use/don't need one with the Lightning.

You would NOT be using the generator input of your Franklin system, you would be bypassing the Franklin transfer switch generator input completely.

There would be some wiring for the Utility power mode of the new transfer switch that would feed the utility power into the Franklin system from a breaker added to your service panel, and the Lightning current might also go through the Franklin depending o how you wire it..

There may be other ways to wire things, but this is what I did with my house that had an existing transfer switch (for an un-bonded generator - that is, like your Franklin transfer switch) when I added the GENERAC for the Lightning. Here;s the block diagram of what I did below.

It works. The only thing we notice with the GENERAC transfer switch is if you use the rocker switch on it to transfer to the Lightning, it will pop the Lightning breaker and you simply reset the Lightning breaker to get power back.

EDIT: the blue wires are neutrals - the black hots - the orange shows the path when using the Lightning.

So to use the Lghtning I plug the wire in my basement into the Gen inlet box for the GENERAC and then switch the GENERAC to STANDBY which connects the 10 emergency loads to the Lightning (have to reset the Lightning breaker due to the rocker switch tripping the Lightning breaker as described above).

If I am using a generator that is NOT bonded, I use the other inlet box in my basement that connects to the old transfer switch - that would be like your GEN input on your Franklin system.

Not shown in the diagram are the ground wires which are all connected together to provide a safe equipment ground per code.

This is a pic of the finished set up with the service panel and the GENERAC open, labeled:

Your system wiring may/will be a bit different, but your electrician should be able to figure it out from the block diagram.

I understand this may be a bit overwhelming in detail for a non-EE.

The bottom line is the above works, is safe, and complies with the NEC code.

When using the Lightning I bypass the GEN input on the other transfer switch, passing the current from the Lightning through the GENERAC and then through the old transfer switch on the HOT leads (red wires) to the loads (black wires in the service panel), while the neutrals of the loads returns to the Lightning through the GENERAC (white neutral wires are connected at the top of the service panel to the GENERAC white wires which connects to the neutral bar in the GENERAC).

When using utility power, the current goes from a breaker in the service panel, to the GENERAC, then to the old transfer switch (red wires again) to the load black wires, and returns on the neutrals to the GENERAC neutral bar which in utility mode is connected to the service panel neutral bar completing the circuits.

Good luck.

 

[chl]

The block diagram without the orange wire (Lightning path):

 

[chl]

NOTE: this is the way my house system is wired.
Your setup may be different.
Consult a licensed electrician before attempting to wire your house to use the Lightning with a transfer switch system.

Disclaimer

I am an electrical engineer but not a licensed electrician.

The information provided in this post is provided for information purposes only and does not constitute any endorsement or recommendation. No warranty, expressed or implied, is made regarding the accuracy, adequacy, completeness, legality, reliability, or usefulness of any information found in this post. It is your responsibility to verify and investigate this information.

 

[Grumpy2]

NOTE: this is the way my house system is wired.

Ha! I have that exact Connecticut Electric Transfer panel that I picked up years ago and never hooked up. Can you still get breakers for that? I like the meters that allow balancing the loads.

 

[Jodokk]

Any neutral switching transfer switch would work, however...you would be BYPASSING the GEN input of the existing system when using the Lightning.

With a neutral switching transfer switch, the backup circuits are moved from the service panel into the transfer switch (that is the breakers=hots and neutrals, grounds remain where they are).

The transfer switch would have breakers for each backup house circuit, it acts like a subpanel in that sense.

The Lightning 240V 30A output in the bed is limited to 30A so the transfer switch would be one rated for 30A. There are bigger ones by you can't use/don't need one with the Lightning.

You would NOT be using the generator input of your Franklin system, you would be bypassing the Franklin transfer switch generator input completely.

There would be some wiring for the Utility power mode of the new transfer switch that would feed the utility power into the Franklin system from a breaker added to your service panel, and the Lightning current might also go through the Franklin depending o how you wire it..

There may be other ways to wire things, but this is what I did with my house that had an existing transfer switch (for an un-bonded generator - that is, like your Franklin transfer switch) when I added the GENERAC for the Lightning. Here;s the block diagram of what I did below.

It works. The only thing we notice with the GENERAC transfer switch is if you use the rocker switch on it to transfer to the Lightning, it will pop the Lightning breaker and you simply reset the Lightning breaker to get power back.

EDIT: the blue wires are neutrals - the black hots - the orange shows the path when using the Lightning.

So to use the Lghtning I plug the wire in my basement into the Gen inlet box for the GENERAC and then switch the GENERAC to STANDBY which connects the 10 emergency loads to the Lightning (have to reset the Lightning breaker due to the rocker switch tripping the Lightning breaker as described above).

If I am using a generator that is NOT bonded, I use the other inlet box in my basement that connects to the old transfer switch - that would be like your GEN input on your Franklin system.

Not shown in the diagram are the ground wires which are all connected together to provide a safe equipment ground per code.

This is a pic of the finished set up with the service panel and the GENERAC open, labeled:

Your system wiring may/will be a bit different, but your electrician should be able to figure it out from the block diagram.

I understand this may be a bit overwhelming in detail for a non-EE.

The bottom line is the above works, is safe, and complies with the NEC code.

When using the Lightning I bypass the GEN input on the other transfer switch, passing the current from the Lightning through the GENERAC and then through the old transfer switch on the HOT leads (red wires) to the loads (black wires in the service panel), while the neutrals of the loads returns to the Lightning through the GENERAC (white neutral wires are connected at the top of the service panel to the GENERAC white wires which connects to the neutral bar in the GENERAC).

When using utility power, the current goes from a breaker in the service panel, to the GENERAC, then to the old transfer switch (red wires again) to the load black wires, and returns on the neutrals to the GENERAC neutral bar which in utility mode is connected to the service panel neutral bar completing the circuits.

Good luck.

I have a feeling this post will be used for a long time. I can't thank you enough. It's an entire how-to pamphlet!

 

[chl]

I have a feeling this post will be used for a long time. I can't thank you enough. It's an entire how-to pamphlet!

LOL

Well I did a lot of thinking about how I was going to do it so I would not have to remove the old transfer switch.

In retrospect, just replacing the old transfer switch would have been less work, but not as much fun as solving the problem was - I guess that sounds strange. But that's just me.

Hope your electrician can get you set up so things work!

 

[chl]

Ha! I have that exact Connecticut Electric Transfer panel that I picked up years ago and never hooked up. Can you still get breakers for that? I like the meters that allow balancing the loads.

I guess we Lightning owners have a lot of things in common, including transfer switches? Ha.

I have never looked for breakers for it - the label that says opening will void the warranty has stopped me from opening it to look at the breakers.

I know they still sell them - the company ownership may have changed since I bought mine back in 2011 - I actually had ordered a different brand from "Electric Generators Direct" but the substituted that one.

Yes the meters are a nice touch.

Using the Lightning ProPower is nicer because the truck tells you the load on each of the two 120V generators that are combined to get the 240V out. I was happily surprised to see how little power my 10 back-up emergency circuits used on the truck screen in shown in watts, although I did not have everything running - the microwave is 1000W on high and that was off.

Unfortunately you can't use the Connecticut switch with the Lightning without tripping the GFCI. But the Generac was only $400 or so, sometimes they go on sale under $400. The install manual was a bit obtuse, always hard to get good technical writers, but it sufficed.

 

[v2h8484]

Do you mean at the inlet?
Wouldn't disconnecting the ground there solve to issue if the dual grounds? I'm not an electrician, so I'm just trying to understand this stuff.

You can do it in the inlet or the plug. I personally prefer the plug so there is nothing permanent in the house wiring that is odd. Given how simple it is, if I were you I would at least test disconnecting the ground from the truck temporarily before committing to anything else that requires significant changes/time/money/space.

 

[chl]

You can do it in the inlet or the plug. I personally prefer the plug so there is nothing permanent in the house wiring that is odd. Given how simple it is, if I were you I would at least test disconnecting the ground from the truck temporarily before committing to anything else that requires significant changes/time/money/space.

Disconnecting the ground is not code compliant.

Also under certain circumstances it can be dangerous which is why the code requires the equipment ground in the first place.

See this video FYI:

 

[hturnerfamily]

You can do it in the inlet or the plug. I personally prefer ...

as an original '22 PRO SR owner, with 240v 30amp ProPower, this has been my easy method, from day one: simply backfeed the truck's power back into the SAME exact outlet that the truck uses to get it's power - the NEMA 14-50 outlet on the house, after tripping off the home's Main Breaker (and leaving off the ProPower until adding my 240v extension cord from the truck to the outlet, which has the GROUND prong or wire removed, on one end, solving the temporary 'Ground Fault' issue)...

this works with no issues, fully functional, with full power to the house's MAIN panel, for temporary needs...

you will always have the electric police on these forums tell you otherwise, but, regardless, it works. The house's Main panel is grounded. The truck has a bonded Ground/Neutral.
or, call your electrician.

Go for the 'fully compliant' version, with all the additional expense, as needed, when you know it works.

 

[v2h8484]

Disconnecting the ground is not code compliant.

Also under certain circumstances it can be dangerous which is why the code requires the equipment ground in the first place.

See this video FYI:

I am well aware. Bless your heart for bringing this up for the 100th time. FYI, it's also not code compliant without a separate ground rod and a properly sized GEC even with a neutral switching transfer switch when using a SDS. I don't think anyone on the forum actually has a truly code compliant installation. In any case, I was only suggesting a temporary test.

 

[Jodokk]

as an original '22 PRO SR owner, with 240v 30amp ProPower, this has been my easy method, from day one: simply backfeed the truck's power back into the SAME exact outlet that the truck uses to get it's power - the NEMA 14-50 outlet on the house, after tripping off the home's Main Breaker (and leaving off the ProPower until adding my 240v extension cord from the truck to the outlet, which has the GROUND prong or wire removed, on one end, solving the temporary 'Ground Fault' issue)...

this works with no issues, fully functional, with full power to the house's MAIN panel, for temporary needs...

you will always have the electric police on these forums tell you otherwise, but, regardless, it works. The house's Main panel is grounded. The truck has a bonded Ground/Neutral.
or, call your electrician.

Go for the 'fully compliant' version, with all the additional expense, as needed, when you know it works.

It's great to hear from a Lightning owner. I have seen that set up!
It would seem perfectly safe given both entities are grounded no matter what.
The method does make me pause, just because of insurance and warranty issues, but damned if I wouldn't do it during another shit show like we had with Helene, up here.
Thanks

 

[Jodokk]

Disconnecting the ground is not code compliant.

Also under certain circumstances it can be dangerous which is why the code requires the equipment ground in the first place.

See this video FYI:

Very informative! Yeah, just removing grounds just seems to be where I draw the line. If it were a cheaper truck and cheaper house, or a workshop, I'd probably goof around with it, and get zapped.

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