Statement by Honda CEO

[Heliian]

models that are profitable

This is the problem, profitable doesn't mean better. This is why regulation exists or we'd be driving around in unsafe pollution factories on wheels.

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[Danface]

Lots of us with multiple replacements helping to drive the number up. I was at 3 modules replaced (3 separate times) in the first 20k miles.

Ford should partner with Dewalt or Milwaukee or Ryobi to make it so you can just pop out the bricked module in under an hour.

Think of the loss of repair revenue!

 

[srspring551]

Any slowing now is temporary. ICEs will mostly be history - only a matter of time - they are too complex and need too much maintenance and are ultimately more expensive. I would never go back to gas. The fossil fuel industry will kill us all unless we wake up. The criminals in our government are lining their pockets. At least the Chinese and the rest of the World know better. At this rate the US will never be great again.

 

[chl]

The figurehead also predicted that the onset of the Trump Administration and its attitude toward electric car-friendly policies like the IRA tax credits and the loosening of EPA fuel economy standards will stunlock EV demand for some time, even after a new president takes the seat at the Resolute desk.

So looks like EVs are on the slow slide for the next decade.

No surprise from Honda - they put a lot of money into hydrogen fuel cells instead of EVs which their CEO pooh-poohed not to long ago (2016 or 2017?).

Despite having one of the first hybrid EVs (the Insight) and the Fit BEV, since about 2017 they have been more interested in hydrogen fuel cell vehicle development.

https://about.bnef.com/blog/toyota-clings-to-hydrogen-bet-while-electric-sales-soar/

But once it became apparent BEVs were taking off, they changed their public tune...now it is back to their old line it seems.

What's wrong with hydrogen fuel cells?

In short, current BEV vehicle technology is more convenient, cheaper, and less dangerous than hydrogen fuel cell vehicle technology.

---Some Details---

Hydrogen fueling stations would require a massive infrastructure investment vs electric infrastucture - electricity is almost everywhere, hydrogen to fuel Honda's not so much.

Safety: Hindenburg disaster shows how flammable and explosive hydrogen is:

"Hydrogen is a highly flammable fuel source, which brings understandable safety concerns. Hydrogen gas burns in air at concentrations ranging from 4 to 75%. "

Sources: while hydrogen is ubiquitous, extracting it from say water takes a lot of energy, and extracting it from hydrocarbons (oil) isn't going to help the environment:

" Despite being the most abundant element in the Universe, hydrogen does not exist on its own so needs to be extracted from water via electrolysis or separated from carbon fossil fuels. Both of these processes require a significant amount of energy to achieve. This energy can be more than that gained from the hydrogen itself as well as being expensive. In addition, this extraction typically requires the use of fossil fuels, which in the absence of CCS undermines the green credentials of hydrogen. "

Kind of pricey materials involved:

" Precious metals such as platinum and iridium are typically required as catalysts in fuel cells and some types of water electrolyser, which means that the initial cost of fuel cells (and electrolysers) can be high. This high cost has deterred some from investing in hydrogen fuel cell technology. Such costs need to be reduced in order to make hydrogen fuel cells a feasible fuel source for all. "

Not a cheap to produce watt for watt compared with say solar or wind electricity, for example:

"The cost for a unit of power from hydrogen fuel cells is currently greater than other energy sources, including solar panels. This may change as technology advances, but currently this cost is a barrier to widespread use of hydrogen even though it is more efficient once produced. This expense also impacts costs further down the line, such as with the price of hydrogen operated vehicles, making widespread adoption unlikely at the moment."

Not likely to be able to refuel at home like one cane with an ordinary BEV:

"Large scale adoption of hydrogen fuel cell technology for automotive applications will require new refueling infrastructure to support it, although for long-range applications such as those for HGVs and delivery truck is it likely the start-to-end refueling will be used. ... Hydrogen is a highly flammable fuel source, which brings understandable safety concerns. Hydrogen gas burns in air at concentrations ranging from 4 to 75%."

In short, current BEV vehicle technology is more convenient, cheaper, and less dangerous than hydrogen fuel cell vehicle technology.

 

[chl]

Id hesitate to purchase an EV right now unless you plan on keeping it till the wheels fall off.

Many dealers are hesitant to take them in as trade ins, this is one of the reasons for the abysmal trade in values.

We won't learn until we have a real OIL crisis and the only that can save us will be the Chinese and their dirt cheap EV's. These mandates turned people off to EV's as they felt it was a Government telling them what to do.

The mandates originated with the people and their representatives through democratic means, in America, we ARE the government.

But we have the best politicians money can buy and the oil industry has tons of money to spend, climate changed be damned.

 

[chl]

That is not even a valid option, most of Tesla's have cells made from Panasonic. The models that they release with their in-house 4680 have quietly been discontinued and the only model even coming with those cells is the Cybertruck which is having an entire slew of problems on its own. There have been multiple owners in the tesla groups I'm in that have had their 4680 cybertruck battery fail in under 10k miles and they have not even made vert many of them yet. Surprisingly the 2nd leading pack used in manufacturing of the Tesla's is the Chinese CATL models. If you buy a tesla currently that "qualifies" for the EV Tax Credit its a Panasonic model battery, but many are finding that if you leased your Tesla, because they don't qualify for the tax credit, they are shipping the Chinese cell models to lease purchases.

I think the idea is that TESLA will get a tariff exemption since money "talks" with this administration and Elon Muck certainly has enough to buy an exemption.

But if Ford did that, Ford would lose a lot of goodwill with most of the folks who buy EVs so it would be a bad idea from a political standpoint I think.

 

[chl]

I would agree with software, but most manufactures don't want to pay the royalties of using someone else's software. I think if someone like Ford just teamed up with Apple and literally put an Ipad in the truck using Apple's hardware and software, that would be a killer combination. Apple's UI is incredibly easy for all ages on their Ipads. Regarding Batteries, i think FORD is actually leading the pack in least battery replacement per vehicle manufactured.

Heck im sure apple could even make it a docking station on the dash, so the screen uses an existing iPAD product that just seats into the docking station and connects with the vehicle. This could make it so the screen hardware could be upgraded as simple as replacing the IPAD>

At one point Apple WAS going to make an EV, the iCar? It died.

But the Slate is coming....the tech billionaires are funding that development.

The way things are going, China will own a vast percentage of the world-wide EV market share and the USA will be sheet out of luck.

 

[chl]

Id hesitate to purchase an EV right now unless you plan on keeping it till the wheels fall off.

Many dealers are hesitant to take them in as trade ins, this is one of the reasons for the abysmal trade in values.

We won't learn until we have a real OIL crisis and the only that can save us will be the Chinese and their dirt cheap EV's. These mandates turned people off to EV's as they felt it was a Government telling them what to do.

It's a mixed bag for trade in and resale values and EVs. True some are dismal, but those are the short range compliance models that companies made so they could sell in states like CA. The ones with better range do just as well as ICE vehicles according to those who keep track of the numbers.

But a big part of it is supply and demand (ECON 101).

If the supply shrinks due to lower manufacturing as a result of tariffs, loss of the tax credit etc., as long as there is still a demand for EVs, the resale price will go up.

Remember who Ford dealerships were gouging us with "market price adjustments" of sometimes as much as $10k when the 2022 Lightnings were in short supply? Ford lost a lot of reservations (upwards of 80%) due to the initial MSRPs.

Then once they had sold to people to whom money didn't matter as much, the high prices squashed demand and they had to lower the MSRP and offer incentives. Then the sales surged.

It is hard to predict.

But it appears demand for most things has fallen as the threat of a recession looms, people are cutting back on spending expecting the worst. Retaliatory responses to the tariffs include a fall off of tourism to the US, which means layoff in the service sector. Selling the produce farmers grow overseas is beginning to plummet as well.

If there is a recession, or like the last time the US tried tariffs, an extended world wide depression, demand for EVs and everything else (except the demand for jobs) will plummet, a worst case scenario.

Not a fun thing to contemplate, but it is what it is.

 

[Jseis]

It's a mixed bag for trade in and resale values and EVs. True some are dismal, but those are the short range compliance models that companies made so they could sell in states like CA. The ones with better range do just as well as ICE vehicles according to those who keep track of the numbers.

But a big part of it is supply and demand (ECON 101).

If the supply shrinks due to lower manufacturing as a result of tariffs, loss of the tax credit etc., as long as there is still a demand for EVs, the resale price will go up.

Remember who Ford dealerships were gouging us with "market price adjustments" of sometimes as much as $10k when the 2022 Lightnings were in short supply? Ford lost a lot of reservations (upwards of 80%) due to the initial MSRPs.

Then once they had sold to people to whom money didn't matter as much, the high prices squashed demand and they had to lower the MSRP and offer incentives. Then the sales surged.

It is hard to predict.

But it appears demand for most things has fallen as the threat of a recession looms, people are cutting back on spending expecting the worst. Retaliatory responses to the tariffs include a fall off of tourism to the US, which means layoff in the service sector. Selling the produce farmers grow overseas is beginning to plummet as well.

If there is a recession, or like the last time the US tried tariffs, an extended world wide depression, demand for EVs and everything else (except the demand for jobs) will plummet, a worst case scenario.

Not a fun thing to contemplate, but it is what it is.

Yeah, the market trends are already showing “more well heeled households” tightening up on purchase decisions and that means a big GDP impact for this year, next year. Any impact will roil the midterms. Hold on! Going to be weird!

 

[Storx]

Sadly yes,

I was an early pre-order on the Lightning Pro, but dropped out for refund when the prices were released and lack of tech it had listed. I couldn't justify the price.

I was also an early pre-order of the Cybertruck LR (500+ miles), but dropped out for refund when they released the prices and the range was basically half of initially advertised.

I currently have a pre-order for the RamCharger, but its looking more and more like ill be dropping out of that also. I spoke to the dealership i pre-ordered through and they told me internal chatter is its very unlikely they will even come out with it next year due to huge lawsuit happening with the 500k EV axle/motor contract they dropped out of and refused to pay for... Who knows if they can even trust the axle company, they could screw them over in revenge over this feud, leading to poorly performing parts.

 

[chl]

It's a mixed bag for trade in and resale values and EVs. True some are dismal, but those are the short range compliance models that companies made so they could sell in states like CA. The ones with better range do just as well as ICE vehicles according to those who keep track of the numbers.

But a big part of it is supply and demand (ECON 101).

If the supply shrinks due to lower manufacturing as a result of tariffs, loss of the tax credit etc., as long as there is still a demand for EVs, the resale price will go up.

Remember who Ford dealerships were gouging us with "market price adjustments" of sometimes as much as $10k when the 2022 Lightnings were in short supply? Ford lost a lot of reservations (upwards of 80%) due to the initial MSRPs.

Then once they had sold to people to whom money didn't matter as much, the high prices squashed demand and they had to lower the MSRP and offer incentives. Then the sales surged.

It is hard to predict.

But it appears demand for most things has fallen as the threat of a recession looms, people are cutting back on spending expecting the worst. Retaliatory responses to the tariffs include a fall off of tourism to the US, which means layoff in the service sector. Selling the produce farmers grow overseas is beginning to plummet as well.

If there is a recession, or like the last time the US tried tariffs, an extended world wide depression, demand for EVs and everything else (except the demand for jobs) will plummet, a worst case scenario.

Not a fun thing to contemplate, but it is what it is.

It is not as bad as you think.

https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/used-electric-vehicle-buying-report

 

[TaxmanHog]

 

[Whammy Bar]

Think of the loss of repair revenue!

Think of astronomical reduction of Dealer Warranty Charges back to Ford Motor Company when the process is as simple as an oil change instead of a $7000 ordeal involving coolant, multiple techs, specialized lifts, rental vehicles, appeasments....

 

[Scorpio3d]

Yeah, sometimes we go off the rails a little, but usually two of the four wheels are still on the rails

 

[Danface]

Think of astronomical reduction of Dealer Warranty Charges back to Ford Motor Company when the process is as simple as an oil change instead of a $7000 ordeal involving coolant, multiple techs, specialized lifts, rental vehicles, appeasments....

I agree but don't assume Ford or the dealerships see the value in "making less money". It's a paradigm shift that the car makers haven't really thought about. I WISH that the teams that design vehicles were made to have to then repair what they designed. I had a 2000 Toyota Sienna with a tranverse mounted engine and the only way to change the 3 spark plugs that faced the firewall was to drop the engine mounts ... nucking futs.

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