SAE is standardizing the NACS connector – making it less dependent on Tesla

SAE is standardizing NACS – making it less dependent on Tesla

SAE is Standardizing NACS Connector




https://electrek.co/2023/06/27/sae-standardizing-nacs-less-dependent-on-tesla/

SAE International today announced it will standardize the Tesla-developed North American Charging Standard (NACS) connector. This will ensure that any supplier or manufacturer will be able to use, manufacture, or deploy the NACS connector on electric vehicles (EVs) and at charging stations across North America. Ford Motor Company, General Motors, Rivian, and a number of EV charging companies recently announced plans to adopt the NACS connector through adaptors or future product offerings.

This is great news to the industry. I'm looking forward to long trips without caring if the only chargers we find are SuperChargers.

It makes you wonder what companies like Electrify America, ChargePoint, EVgo, etc. need to do to survive in the long term.

IdeaOfTheDayCom said:

This is great news to the industry. I'm looking forward to long trips without caring if the only chargers we find are SuperChargers.

It makes you wonder what companies like Electrify America, ChargePoint, EVgo, etc. need to do to survive in the long term.

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There will be a lot of non nacs cars still on the road that may not work via software. I’m sure they will be updating their plugs. It’s not like they are going to just go away, I’m looking forward to hunt day I just see a charger and can get 150 kw no matter what. I can’t imagine what It’s going to be like in the 200 kWh battery vehicle when the best they can find is 50-75 kw chargers. Maybe the t3 e will be closer to 2.5 m/kw at 65 and be 800v, 300 miles at 65 and being about to go 20-80% in ten minutes is the sweet spot (at least for me)

lancersrock said:

There will be a lot of non nacs cars still on the road that may not work via software. I’m sure they will be updating their plugs. It’s not like they are going to just go away...

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I agree with that, but these companies have been investing a lot of money building charging networks that most will agree are not as reliable as Tesla's.

The trouble is they're building a long-term business that will not be growing as fast as they expected. Even if there will still be a lot of them on the road in 5 years, none of the newer Ford, GM or Rivian buyers will want to use their network, and even existing CCS owners like us will still want to use the SuperCharger network with the adapters.

Things are happening fast. I'm guessing there will be other companies adopting the NACS in the next year or so, and as each one makes that move, the future outlook for companies like Electrify America will shrink, unless they too start providing NACS connectors.

That's where things get interesting, because given a choice between an NACS based SuperCharger or another charging company using NACS connectors, they'll need to compete on price and reliability.

IdeaOfTheDayCom said:

I agree with that, but these companies have been investing a lot of money building charging networks that most will agree are not as reliable as Tesla's.

The trouble is they're building a long-term business that will not be growing as fast as they expected. Even if there will still be a lot of them on the road in 5 years, none of the newer Ford, GM or Rivian buyers will want to use their network, and even existing CCS owners like us will still want to use the SuperCharger network with the adapters.

Things are happening fast. I'm guessing there will be other companies adopting the NACS in the next year or so, and as each one makes that move, the future outlook for companies like Electrify America will shrink, unless they too start providing NACS connectors.

That's where things get interesting, because given a choice between an NACS based SuperCharger or another charging company using NACS connectors, they'll need to compete on price and reliability.

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Supercharger prices are steep, though. The competitors already are in good shape there. If they can continue to improve reliability, EA, EVGo, etc, will be able to compete.

Add in that Superchargers in many places are often slammed with vehicles and there is going to be plenty of charging need to go around. There will be lots of room for competitors if they can provide good reliability.

TheWoo said:

Supercharger prices are steep, though. The competitors already are in good shape there. If they can continue to improve reliability, EA, EVGo, etc, will be able to compete.

Add in that Superchargers in many places are often slammed with vehicles and there is going to be plenty of charging need to go around. There will be lots of room for competitors if they can provide good reliability.

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Reliability is the key, but it's much harder for them to achieve. Since they're very existence depends on it, they're going to have to really step up to the plate or vanish.

IdeaOfTheDayCom said:

It makes you wonder what companies like Electrify America, ChargePoint, EVgo, etc. need to do to survive in the long term.

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Charge 5 cents less per kWh, done.

Heliian said:

Charge 5 cents less per kWh, done.

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When a commodity is identical, that's all it takes. The hard part is improving their availability and reliability. They need to be where you need them, and they need to work (and at high speeds).

For what it's worth, I'd rather have an NASC port on my Lightning instead of an adapter, but at least it means we can use just about every charger out there.

IdeaOfTheDayCom said:

When a commodity is identical, that's all it takes. The hard part is improving their availability and reliability. They need to be where you need them, and they need to work (and at high speeds).

For what it's worth, I'd rather have an NASC port on my Lightning instead of an adapter, but at least it means we can use just about every charger out there.

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Location might be a huge differentiator as well. I know I personally would go to a slightly slower and/or more expensive fast charger on a road trip if it was at a restaurant I wanted to stop at for lunch or dinner.

I foresee lots of "partnerships" between locations and charging popping up over time, more than we have now.

sotek2345 said:

I foresee lots of "partnerships" between locations and charging popping up over time

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They are behind now but ya, they need to get on that.

sotek2345 said:

Location might be a huge differentiator as well. I know I personally would go to a slightly slower and/or more expensive fast charger on a road trip if it was at a restaurant I wanted to stop at for lunch or dinner.

I foresee lots of "partnerships" between locations and charging popping up over time, more than we have now.

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Agreed - Gas stations didn't always have convenience stores as part of their experience. Charging stations will eventually have other ways of monetizing our presence (or, businesses that want to draw customers for 20-60 minutes will want to have charging stations). Restaurants/multiple retail options/coffee shops/brief outdoor activities (think parks with hiking trails, driving range, etc) all strike me as good options I'd choose over a Walmart parking lot.

IdeaOfTheDayCom said:

It makes you wonder what companies like Electrify America, ChargePoint, EVgo, etc. need to do to survive in the long term.

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Well, Tesla currently does not have 800V superchargers. EA has a nationwide network of the team. Those 800V architecture cars are going to charge quite slowly on the Superchargers. To make things worse, on the Porsche Taycan, most cars support only 50kW 400V charging with 150kW 400V being an add-on cost at the time of configuration. Given that Tesla still has a lot of V2 chargers out there and seems slow to upgrade, I wouldn’t expect them to catch up to EA with new 800V superchargers anytime soon.

Those non-Tesla options are already substantially cheaper than Tesla’s own network. I’ve run into a bunch of Tesla owners with CCS adapters taking advantage of much cheaper DC fast charging. Given that I am already expecting Tesla to charge non-Teslas a premium to use their chargers, we should all appreciate having our options open. At pricing for Tesla owners, Supercharger prices match or exceed gas prices in parts of the country.

I road tripped 400 miles just yesterday using EA chargers. I regularly do 500 mile road trip days in my Lightning. In less than three months, I have racked up 8k miles. The new 350kw shared chargers that EA is installing across the country are great. While it’s nice to have Superchargers access to expand our options, I am quite thankful that we won’t be limited to them.

Personally, I will use the Superchargers only if I have no other viable options, because Elon Musk is a garbage person and a charlatan. I don’t like the idea of giving him any of my money outside of it being a necessity to get from point A to point B..

When all the 'others' adapt to the NACS on their existing and new DC Fast Chargers, Tesla may no longer have any stranglehold on charging 'extra' at their Superchargers. Most of us will agree that use of a Supercharger will be on a very infrequent case, especially as other DC Fast Chargers start to come online. If Superchargers are also slower, all the more reason NOT to ever use them. This conversation really is only about giving CCS owners the ability to have that 'life line' of Supercharger capabilities, but ONLY in needed situations, which may not happen as frequently as many might assume. Add to that the lack of parking options for my LIGHTNING and other vehicles with charge ports not in the front or rear, and the length of the Supercharger hose also causes issues.

I've yet to hear that Tesla will be part of this process or adhere to the new standards.

IdeaOfTheDayCom said:

I agree with that, but these companies have been investing a lot of money building charging networks that most will agree are not as reliable as Tesla's.

The trouble is they're building a long-term business that will not be growing as fast as they expected. Even if there will still be a lot of them on the road in 5 years, none of the newer Ford, GM or Rivian buyers will want to use their network, and even existing CCS owners like us will still want to use the SuperCharger network with the adapters.

Things are happening fast. I'm guessing there will be other companies adopting the NACS in the next year or so, and as each one makes that move, the future outlook for companies like Electrify America will shrink, unless they too start providing NACS connectors.

That's where things get interesting, because given a choice between an NACS based SuperCharger or another charging company using NACS connectors, they'll need to compete on price and reliability.

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Agreed and for those companies that have shown that their sites are less dependable [Insert company name of choice] it will require more than just a simple exchange of the cable. They will need to update their software solution and processes for tracking failures.

Unfortunately, I've seen where there was a technician working on a charger at a site that I was using, on my return trip, a few days later that the same charging unit the technician was working on was still down.

All said, this is not just about the cable or a standard, these companies that have struggled will continue to struggle unless their leadership makes major changes or they are they changed.