I need help figuring out my home charging situation

[topher10]

I am a relatively new owner, but thought I would add my 2 cents:

1. I agree with the suggestion to hire an electrician if you have any uncertainty. I would not assume the existing wiring is correct. It seems wise to take the unneeded slot for the kitchen, put it in a new breaker, and run a new wire to an EVSE that lets you adjust the rate of charge.

2. As the poster above indicates, I would consider how much you drive a day and how much time you will need to recharge each night. If you are only driving 20-30 miles a day, you can charge nightly at relatively low kW and be fine. But if you are driving 180 miles a day and need it back to full each morning, that load might strain your system.

For my part, I purchased an Emporia EVSE and had it hard wired by an electrician with a 60 amp breaker. Even though it can charge at 48amps (11.5kw), I have it set to 40amps (9.6kw) because I usually drive less than 20 miles a day. I feel that gives the system a little headroom, and at 9.6kw I still only need a few hrs to top up the battery. I could get by with dialing it even lower, but not sure it makes a difference.

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[bmccaul]

Good ideas. Ultimately I think wiring a charger outlet from your unused kitchen circuit is the best way to go.

If you don’t want to bother with wiring or electrician, neocharge smart splitter is an option. Plugs into your dryer outlet, then charger and dryer plug into it.
It will cut power to charger if you turn on dryer, then resume charge after dryer stops.

https://getneocharge.com/products/n...Rg1lBpDT2FXHlcwBSJHIy3w1wFD7Y19Xw-Tv3kdy7djaw

 

[flyct]

Lots of good information here and some not so good.


1- Looking at the picture the OP posted it looks like the outlet is supplied with a 10 AWG orange Romex cable that is only good for up to 30 amps. Having that circuit protected with a 40 amp breaker is a fire hazard

2- sharing the dryer outlet with another outlet is another code violation and fire hazard.

3- having the outlet exposed without a cover plate is another safety hazard.

4- Plugging in a Ford mobile charger into a 30 amp outlet shout not be done since it draws 30-32 amps continuous. A 30 amp outlet/circuit is only rated for 24 amps continuous.

The good advice is to have an electrician recommend and implement a safe solution. If here is ample head room repurposing the unused 40 amp breaker and running adequate wire to a 14-50 outlet might be the best solution. A 40 amp circuit can legally supply 32 amps continuous .

Disclaimer: I am not an electrician but I’ve pulled multiple homeowner electrical permits and I’ve never failed an inspection.

 

[B177y]

If your house was built in the '60s, you may have aluminum wiring on the stove and dryer circuits. The constant load of an EV charger was never a thought on any home wiring from that era.

I agree with some other posters to have a professional evaluate your situation and provide a professional opinion.

 

[KHines]

How close is your meter? This may fix stuff for you

https://connectder.com/products/ev/

 

[Tony Burgh]

Although I spent 40 years in various engineering groups for industry and felt qualified to install my 80 amp FCSP, I hired a licensed electrician for the installation. I knew exactly what he had to do and what wiring he needed. But if anything goes wrong, I have backup.

fwiw - I was a registered PE. That license gave validity to being an expert witness and verified my training and education.

 

[shelnian]

You can't just replace your 10-30 outlet with an EV rated 15-50 outlet, Hubbell, Bryant, or Levitron because they won't fit into a single gang box. Box will need to be a deep or oversized 2-gang box.

Isn't Ford now offering free charger installs? If not, maybe can buy a charger at a discount from your local electrical utility and hardwire it to your spare 40A circuit. I bought the ChargePoint Home Flex for $250 from my local utility.

Most local electrical codes require EV outlets to be protected by a GFCI breakers unless the charger is hardwired which is why hardwiring chargers is recommended. I have seen where the ChargePoint Home Flex chargers cause nuisance tripping of GFCI breakers to the point where the breaker trips almost every charge cycle. Had to hardwire it and replace the breaker with a standard one eliminate this.

No, wouldn't use an adapter because they can cause fires.

The 90A service should be fine unless you have any large loads such as AC units or a well pump.

 

[Newton]

With an old house I would definitely keep the amperage down, you will do fine with a 32A EVSE or less. Old breakers are old and the continuous load of an EVSE will be something that your house has not encountered before.

The safest would be to hardwire a 20A/240V EVSE to the kitchen, you will find that in real life it will recharge fast enough - about 9 or 10 miles an hour. Of course people can (and will) come up with scenarios where that is not fast enough but for the odd occasion you can hit a fast charger if absolutely necessary.

 

[Newton]

You can repurpose the 40 amp unused kitchen range breaker and wire it to a 14-50 outlet. Then use a Ford mobile "charger" that has a 50 amp plug that will only draw 30 amps.

It's legal to ie a 14-50 to a 40 amp circuit since there is no 40 amp 240v outlet. Just label it as a 40 amp outlet.

I use a 14-50 outlet wired to a 40 amp circuit at the shed at my remote cabin. The breaker is wired to a 60 amp subpanel. Originally it was used to power my RV but now it is used as a backup charger for my EVs The sub panel also had 2 - 240 volt well pumps, a window AC unit and several lighting circuits.

No. The only semi-acceptable way to do this is to get an adapter to convert the 14-50 male end on the Ford EVSE to work with a 40A outlet (no less!) and preferably tape it on so that it can’t be removed and used for something else. Changing the outlet to handle a connection over the wire rating is a sure recipe for disaster in the future - especially in an old house with old wiring!

 

[flyct]

No. The only semi-acceptable way to do this is to get an adapter to convert the 14-50 male end on the Ford EVSE and preferably tape it on so that it can’t be removed and used for something else. Changing the outlet to handle a connection over the wire rating is a sure recipe for disaster in the future - especially in an old house with old wiring!

Agreed. If you were replying to me perhaps I was unclear in my posting. The breaker should NEVER EXCEED the Wire and outlet rating.

Since there is no 40 amp 240v outlet, it is legal, customary and acceptable to use a 14-50R outlet wired for 40 amps, and protected with a 40 amp breaker. It’s done all the time with electric ranges.

My detached shed Sub-panel has a 60 amp main. Per code, a main is required in the sub-panel because it is in a detached building and has more than 6 breaker handles.

It’s fed 6 AWG THHN in conduit from the house panel. The 14-50 outlet in question is wired to a 40 amp breaker in that sub-panel, using 6 AWG THHN in flex conduit.

Even though it’s labeled “car charger”, It primarily powers my RV ,so that’s why the 40 amp breaker is a standard Double Pole breaker rather than an expensive GFCI. On very rare occasions is it used as a backup EV charger outlet, since I also have a hard wired Tesla Wall Connector installed at the house which we use for the EVs.

 

[FloridaMan655321]

Just a general reply to those suggesting lower charging. I only have a 15 mile round trip to work, and was charging via 120v for almost 5 months. Yes, it was fine, but damn it was sooooo nice to finally upgrade to 240v. Now I rarely think about charging, just kind of do it whenever, usually once during the week and once during the weekend.

 

[chl]

If I were you I'd plan on getting a wall mounted EVSE and only use the FMPC (Ford Mobile Power Cord) temporarily - there have been several threads here and elsewhere about the FMPC failures, mostly after using as the exclusive charger for months. I keep mine only for emergencies when not at home for example, and use my Ford Charge Station Pro.

NOTE: Even though I have the SR battery and can only charge at a maximum rate of 11.5kW (48A max) I have it wired for the full 80A for future potential. Something to consider.

That said, you can get an adapter for the outlet you have to allow the FMPC dongle to plug in to your existing outlet. If you try to run the dryer and the charger at the same time, you'll likely pop the breaker, a sign the circuit is being overloaded which is not a good thing to do.

If you change the outlet you must follow the current codes, you will no longer be grandfathered in, in most jurisdictions. Most wiring changes have to be in compliance with current codes and changing the outlet type most likely constitutes such a change. Probably would require an inspection too. Using an adapter should not.

Generally, the recent codes say if the EVSE in on an outlet it must be GFCI protected and should be a dedicated circuit, so check your local codes on that point. The codes are for the protection of you, your neighbors and anyone who owns the house after you are gone.

There is no 220V 40A receptacle in the US so it is perfectly legal to use a 50A one for a 40A circuit.
The 14-50 outlet is designed to be used with both 40A and 50A circuits.
You should label the outlet as such to avoid mistakes in the future by those unaware or forgetful. Some local codes may require, I haven't looked that up though.

Be aware however, if you put a 50A breaker in place of the 40A, the wiring has to also be for 50A to avoid potential overloading/melting of the underrated wire insulation and a short circuit which could result in a fire.

A breaker should always be equal to or less than the outlet (and wiring) rating.

The FMPC does not use the neutral wire.
I continuity tested the 240V dongle and confirmed that.
It uses 2 hots and ground.
So you can use it with an adapter to a 3 prong outlet that is wired hot, hot and ground, like a 6-50R which is what my old GE Watt Station used on 40A circuit, hots on #8 copper, ground on #10 copper, and 40A breaker to supply the 30A continuous load.

Use a good quality plug adapter! I have seen some reports of cheap ones melting under EVSE load conditions. Pay the extra $ for a good quality one!

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