Red Truck Icon of Doom and Stop Safely Now {Fixed Post #24}

[MaintGrl]

Here is a link to the BEV info:
https://www.ford.com/help/24-7-live-support/

Hope that helps! Keep us updated and good luck!

Thank's Chris for the link, I've added it to my Excel "Lightning Charge" spread sheet for future reference...

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[LiteNing]

Well, I struck out with the EV team (but I do appreciate the tip, @Scorpio3d!). Diagnosis is up to the dealer, and it is on the dealer to reach out to Ford for tech info. The only thing the BEV team can offer is info about transferring the truck to a different dealer. Right now I don't want to go that route for the following reasons:

1. Changing horses in the middle of a race seems... not ideal. For several reasons. Obviously you expect people to follow the book, but the natural tendency is "oh, I'll need to open it up again tomorrow, so I'll come back and do that step then". If the transfer happens before they come back tomorrow, now you have the battery in an undocumented state and who knows if that step ever gets done. Additionally, I would expect the new mechanic to make their own diagnosis (more time), verify that the last mechanic didn't mess up anything (more time), and order parts (more time).

2. It's unclear what transferring does to warranty payments. Would Ford cover the warrantable work, including diagnosis, Sunnyvale has done so far (even though the truck is not yet running), or would I be on the hook for that? Will they cover the same at a new dealership (even if they come to a different diagnosis and/or repeat steps)? Only the dealer can answer that question. Right now, the very most coming out of my pocketbook is the 12V, and everything else is warranty (or dealer pay for the bed).

3. Until the truck is actually fixed, the only way to move it is on a flatbed. I have a feeling the transfer process is a PITA (I think I'd want to be there on both ends).

If this drags out long enough there will be a point where I change my mind on transferring. Not sure where that point is, but we're not there yet.

Got another update from Bob: He says the remaining parts came in.

 

[Whammy Bar]

Well, I struck out with the EV team (but I do appreciate the tip, @Scorpio3d!). Diagnosis is up to the dealer, and it is on the dealer to reach out to Ford for tech info. The only thing the BEV team can offer is info about transferring the truck to a different dealer. Right now I don't want to go that route for the following reasons:

1. Changing horses in the middle of a race seems... not ideal. For several reasons. Obviously you expect people to follow the book, but the natural tendency is "oh, I'll need to open it up again tomorrow, so I'll come back and do that step then". If the transfer happens before they come back tomorrow, now you have the battery in an undocumented state and who knows if that step ever gets done. Additionally, I would expect the new mechanic to make their own diagnosis (more time), verify that the last mechanic didn't mess up anything (more time), and order parts (more time).

2. It's unclear what transferring does to warranty payments. Would Ford cover the warrantable work, including diagnosis, Sunnyvale has done so far (even though the truck is not yet running), or would I be on the hook for that? Will they cover the same at a new dealership (even if they come to a different diagnosis and/or repeat steps)? Only the dealer can answer that question. Right now, the very most coming out of my pocketbook is the 12V, and everything else is warranty (or dealer pay for the bed).

3. Until the truck is actually fixed, the only way to move it is on a flatbed. I have a feeling the transfer process is a PITA (I think I'd want to be there on both ends).

If this drags out long enough there will be a point where I change my mind on transferring. Not sure where that point is, but we're not there yet.

Got another update from Bob: He says the remaining parts came in.

Wait 30 days, then transfer it back to Ford as a lemon. The beauty of buying CPO in CA....

 

[LiteNing]

Wait 30 days, then transfer it back to Ford as a lemon. The beauty of buying CPO in CA....

Ultimately I'd prefer not to have to go that route, but yea that seems simpler than a dealer transfer.

Great news? Another update: Bob says my truck is ready for a road test on Monday. Does that mean they only had to replace a HVJB and not a battery brick? I guess I'll find out in due time.

Between that and the BCM-24.5.1 OTA... I am seriously looking forward to getting the truck back. I assume the body work will take more time, so that day probably won't be Monday though.

 

[LiteNing]

Probably should have known it was too good to be true...

The FordPass app was showing 0% SoC over the weekend (but 230 miles estimated range). Early this morning I got a series of notifications: Charging Error, Pro Power nearing reserve setting, and Pro Power overloaded. It currently shows 20% SoC with 50 miles estimated.

More news from Bob: They tried leaving it plugged in over the weekend. After more testing this morning the battery health report indicates something wrong with the battery and they are reaching out to Ford engineering again.

I felt like we were so close... argghh.

 

[alexose]

Couldn't help but notice that you are running into potential HVJB issues at 41k mileage. My symptoms are a little different, but I'm wondering if our trucks share a same faulty part...

 

[LiteNing]

Couldn't help but notice that you are running into potential HVJB issues at 41k mileage. My symptoms are a little different, but I'm wondering if our trucks share a same faulty part...

Those symptoms are pretty different. I did not have the yellow wrench icon, nor the relay clicking. I definitely would have noticed clicking like that because I stuck my head in the frunk twice while getting it to the dealer.

I suppose a bad HVJB could present with different symptoms. Right now, I suspect that my truck just has one or more faulty battery modules, and that the HVJB was never the problem in mine. I can't prove that. It's just my gut feeling based on the symptoms.

I'll write more in your thread.

Edit: Also, the 12V on my truck was fine before it went on the flatbed. I keep an old Fluke 73 under the frunk floor, with all my charging cables. The flatbed driver also brought the kind of jump pack which displays voltage when attached. I don't remember the exact reading but it was in the mid-12's, so not notable.

 

[LiteNing]

Well, I have my truck back. Woo hoo! The bedside panel is immaculate... it truly looks like it came from the factory.

For the statisticians:

Dropping the battery 4 times took 29 days. The body work took another two weeks.

According to Bob, they replaced the BECM, the negative high voltage junction box, and two battery modules. Apparently they had to replace the negative high voltage junction box twice because the first one was faulty.

Parts replaced according to my invoice:

• NL3Z-10C666-E, 2x (the negative HV junction box)
• NL3Z-10B687-A (the BECM)
• NL3Z-10D672-E ("drive motor battery pack", one of the normal ones)
• NL3Z-10D672-F ("drive motor battery pack", the small one up front)
• NL3Z-10D782-M and -K ("heat shield", for the battery modules)
• Plus various sundries including seals, fluids, fasteners, etc.

I did ask for a loaner after the second week. Loaners come from Enterprise and enterprise has no Ford EVs ?. They did offer an Expedition, but that's just not something I have any interest in. So I drove my Volt for a month, and now it's back on the battery tender until I can find the title.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall if/when Ford engineering does a root-cause on this. Mainly because it seems shockingly improbable that two battery modules, the HVJB and BECM would all die at once from unrelated causes.

 

[LiteNing]

Well… I’m back… with another long-winded post

After 6 trouble-free months I started to get some weird symptoms.

The first thing was on a ~300 mile trip down to Santa Barbara, about 6 weeks ago. I charged to 100% the night before. Battery percent started dropping rapidly immediately after departure… before stabilizing at the usual rate. We did have to stop to charge earlier than projected, but I attributed all this to a fluke. Other than needing to stop more often than planned, the Lightning was a road trip champ.

Since then, I started to notice that my truck was unexpectedly charging to 100% at work. I say unexpected because the math isn’t mathing: I should only get up to 92 or 93% given our 4 hour charging limit and 6 kW power… but, after 3-3.5 hours the SoC will suddenly shoot to 100%. When this happens, the SoC will also drop very quickly after unplugging… down to 92% before I drive even one block.

Kinda feels like an imbalanced pack with one module hitting the charge stop voltage early (this is what’s known as foreshadowing, dear reader).

Possibly against my better judgement, I decided to take my Lightning 450 miles to Palm Springs for Xmas. This is where I discovered another symptom: When Supercharging, I got thrown in the penalty box at about 72% instead of 80%… on all three charge stops. Hmm..

So I downloaded Car Scanner… and look at that… high voltage battery module SoC variation is estimated at a whopping 6.4%, and cell voltage variation is over ONE HUNDRED millivolts. sure looks like a balance issue!

With an unusable 7% at the top, and a probable (I don’t want to actually measure this by getting stranded at the side of the road) unusable 7% at the bottom due to pack imbalance, as well as overall 8.5% degradation, my 3-year old lightning with less than 47k on the clock is left with (1 - 2*0.07)*0.915 =0.787 = 78% of original capacity.

There have been no lights on the dashboard and no warning messages since I got the truck back 6 months ago. I did try charging to 100% and leaving it plugged in overnight (a couple times) to see if that would balance the pack… so far no luck.

Pretty frustrating! If you weren’t paying attention to these little things, you’d think the truck was perfectly healthy, and then have the bottom drop out from under your feet while you think you still have a reasonable buffer till the next charger.

I’m going to keep an eye on it with the app and wait a bit before bringing it in because the wonderful Ford dealership network likes to charge $300 to look at potential warranty things, and I’m not yet down to 70% capacity.

 

[Mpi]

Here's how my carscanner readout currently looks. You reminded my about the 70% thing, at least it's clearly warrantable!

 

[bmwhitetx]

Your HVB SOC modules variation of 6.4% would have most certainly triggered a red charge ring a few years ago. That was the golden era when many 22's and 23's including mine got the red ring on the charge port, and the dash showing Service Vehicle Soon with 57% power. @GoodSam tracked them here.

And now mine has an elevated variation again. I have recorded my HVB module variation since early 2023. When my battery module failed in March '24, my variation ballooned to 4.56%:

And yesterday during my monthly scan, it had gone to 5.2% as shown above However, I got no dash warnings and was able to charge to my regular 85% with no issue. Two days ago, I did get the power limit of 57% (rear wheels only) but that cleared after a restart.

My SOH is 98.5% and I only have 14K miles, so it sits a lot for days at a time.

If FDRS wasn't expensive, I would do a Battery Health Report. It shows bad cells. Here is mine from 2024 showing Module 6 with a bad cell.

I seem to remember there was an OTA that made the bad battery determination less sensitive, for better or worse. Need to research that more.

 

[LiteNing]

@Mpi Holy moly, 18% variation!

On my way back from Palm Springs I got a 5% power reduction at 25% displayed SOC and 7% reduction at 22% displayed SOC. I think those power reductions are happening at higher SOC than expected?

Same as on the way down, DCFC dropped to ~50 kW between 71-73% displayed SOC.

And now mine has an elevated variation again. I have recorded my HVB module variation since early 2023. When my battery module failed in March '24, my variation ballooned to 4.56%:

Bummer, but interesting! This sort of trend analysis seems very useful for getting ahead of future problems. Given that Ford already sends this telemetry to the mothership, I with they would do the trend analysis for us.

I signed up for Ford's monthly vehicle report. The one from Dec 23 says the powertrain is "OK" with a green checkbox, so they're clearly not doing trend analysis.

I wonder if yours would jump to 100 displayed SOC if you set the charge limit to 95?

If FDRS wasn't expensive, I would do a Battery Health Report. It shows bad cells. Here is mine from 2024 showing Module 6 with a bad cell.

Yea, $50 just for a one time diagnostic snapshot is too much to do with any regularity. I can see it being worthwhile for those of us with rising imbalance, though. Did you produce that report yourself with a subscription or is it from the dealer?

 

[PJnc284]

Yea, $50 just for a one time diagnostic snapshot is too much to do with any regularity. I can see it being worthwhile for those of us with rising imbalance, though. Did you produce that report yourself with a subscription or is it from the dealer?

It's $120 now for the 2 day license. Wonder if anything useful can be found in PTS. Been a while since I messed with it but it's about $27 for 72 hours.

 

[bmwhitetx]

Did you produce that report yourself with a subscription or is it from the dealer?

The battery health test was done by the dealer (before and after module replacement). Another member here who had FDRS retrieved it for me. FDRS retains history of all tests that were performed, and who did them. I don't remember if PTS also had that info.

I got a 2-day subscription later and also saw all the dealer tests as well. Also shows any modules that were updated with start/stop times.

 

[bmwhitetx]

Is that something you can request of the dealer?

You could try but they may charge you unless you have a DTC that has that test as a diagnostic.

But Carscanner is free and will tell your imbalance. Just won't pinpoint the cell.

I'm still amazed that these levels of cell voltage imbalance are not triggering the Service Vehicle Soon or even a DTC like in 23-24. I really think they changed the algorithm in an OTA.

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