Any update on a NACS extension cable?

[K6CCC]

Anyone have any insider information on the A2Z NACS extension cable? It's still listed on the A2Z website as a future product.

I attempted to use a SuperCharger over the weekend that was V3 chargers that were against a wall so no possibility to use with my Lightning. It had only one stall open so could not use the pull into one spot and use the cable from the next stall over, either. The only nice part (on me), was right after I confirmed that I could not use it, a Tesla X drove by looking for a stall. I walked over and told him he could have the stall I was attempting in about 10 seconds. He was very appreciative and pulled a little forward so I could pull out. See, I can be a nice guy! Only good part was that I was not overly in need of a charge - it was more a convenience (I was eating lunch across the street). I got home with just under 100 miles left. Had I been desperate, there is an EA station that I almost drove past - along with several other fast DC charge stations in Ventura. Once I got back in the Los Angeles basin, there are more fast charges than you can shake a stick at.

So far I have charged nine times at Tesla SuperChargers (eight locations) and never had a problem being able to charge. Maybe I have just been lucky. The other SuperCharger in Ventura, CA is the same physical arrangement.

Sorry, not a very good Google Earth photo...

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[Albern]

I've seen one of the extension cable testers post a photo of his test unit on Reddit - charging a Rivian R1S. Things look good so far; we just need a release date.

I can't wait to get one - not backing-in is annoying.

 

[Shmoe]

I've seen one of the extension cable testers post a photo of his test unit on Reddit - charging a Rivian R1S. Things look good so far; we just need a release date.

I can't wait to get one - not backing-in is annoying.

I would strongly suggest you listen to the Turn Down for Watt podcast episode where they interviewed the a2z ceo.

he basically indicated that using this cable you would probably expect no more than 50kW due to temperature derating.

it might not be the panacea we’re looking for.

 

[djwildstar]

[...] using this cable you would probably expect no more than 50kW due to temperature derating.

Yes -- the engineering for a NACS extension cable is difficult and unforgiving, because we're talking about something that has to safely and reliably handle currents of about 500A.

One approach would be to make a "cable" that contains 15+ pounds of copper and presumably comes with its own little stand so that it doesn't place a strain on any of the connectors. Handling such a thing isn't going to be easy, and building it isn't going to be cheap.

The more-reasonable approach is to monitor the temperatures in the cable and connectors, and limit current through the extension cable to control heating. This means that you may get a brief peak of higher power levels, but over a longer charge session it is likely going to perform a lot like an EA charger with broken active cooling, with mid-double-digit charging power.

 

[RickLightning]

I would strongly suggest you listen to the Turn Down for Watt podcast episode where they interviewed the a2z ceo.

he basically indicated that using this cable you would probably expect no more than 50kW due to temperature derating.

it might not be the panacea we’re looking for.

Correct. It's for "I can't reach the charger and I need to charge". It will derate, it's just a question of how much.

 

[Shmoe]

Yes -- the engineering for a NACS extension cable is difficult and unforgiving, because we're talking about something that has to safely and reliably handle currents of about 500A.

One approach would be to make a "cable" that contains 15+ pounds of copper and presumably comes with its own little stand so that it doesn't place a strain on any of the connectors. Handling such a thing isn't going to be easy, and building it isn't going to be cheap.

The more-reasonable approach is to monitor the temperatures in the cable and connectors, and limit current through the extension cable to control heating. This means that you may get a brief peak of higher power levels, but over a longer charge session it is likely going to perform a lot like an EA charger with broken active cooling, with mid-double-digit charging power.

we know this. But can you not envision what a2z’s customer service might wind up hearing?

I don’t know what’s taking so long but I think there’s definitely concern for the consumer experience with this thing involved.

 

[Vulnox]

Plus long term safety. How do you ensure someone doesn't keep it in their frunk for three years in constantly changing weather conditions and over time the outer protection starts breaking down or cracking. Or rubs against some interior trim and causes exposure to the wiring. Basically eliminates the safety features of the Super Charger and exposes 500 amps to the closest human.

Maybe they have some accounting for this, but it would have to be at the back of your mind when releasing something like this. At least with active cooling cables you can have sensors that detect loss of fluid pressure which might indicate a cable breakage.

I almost think by the time this cable comes out there will be so many V4 dispensers that the need will be a lot smaller, or at least it will weigh into the math for people that don't do more than a few longer trips per year.

 

[K6CCC]

he basically indicated that using this cable you would probably expect no more than 50kW due to temperature derating.

But if you NEED a charge and the cable won't reach without the extension, then 50KW beats ZERO any day!

I almost think by the time this cable comes out there will be so many V4 dispensers that the need will be a lot smaller,

Certainly a possibility - not just Tesla V4 SuperChargers, but other vendors as well. I would assume that most new Tesla installations will be V4, but I don't know that for certain. But almost every other vendor installing fast DC charging is currently installing CCS-1 and with longer cables. So although today, the need to use V3 SuperChargers is very real in many places, that need will go way down over time. I also assume that over time as more vehicles switch to NACS inlets, other vendors will also start installing chargers with NACS in addition to CCS-1 - just as currently a lot of chargers are CCS-1 and CHAdeMO. CCS-1 won't go away for a long time...

As the person who started this thread, depending on when the extension cable comes out, what limitations there are to it, and the price, will determine if I buy one. I have the A2Z SuperCharger and Destination Charger adapters, and been very happy with the SuperCharger adapter (never used the D.C. adapter), so I consider myself a happy A2Z customer and recommend them.

 

[hturnerfamily]

there's a whole different set of issues that comes with a 'manual' hand-held 500v 'extension cord', as you might can imagine...

- first, there is the need for an absolute SOLID and unbreakable connection between the NACS connector and the 'extension' cable. While a CCS to NACS adapter that we already use is certainly a similar safety concern, it, though, is AT THE POINT of connection to the truck, and is a SOLID piece of equipment, with LOCKS on both ends, when deployed.

- second, this Cable would/could obviously also take the place of the CCS to NACS adapter, too, as one end would be for connection to the NACS(Supercharger) outlet, and the other could, well, be a CCS end - with no need for the 'additional' and separate adapter we now use. The safety concerns and the NACS to CCS protocol would have to be embedded throughout the cable.

- Length: what is the optimal length, to accommodate the greatest 'need' for owners, and yet be short enough to not only be USABLE, from a weight characteristic, but, yes, be LIGHT enough that the shear weight of the cable doesn't impede it's natural usage. This cable, potentially hanging in the air between the NACS end and the CCS at the charge port, will probably be a big consideration. Too short, and you don't solve many of the issues, and too long and you create a massively heavy cable to deploy, and a very COSTLY one.

Would a 4' cable be enough? 6' ? 8' ? 12' ??? Each foot could potentially be 10lbs.

 

[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

I am watching and hope for a few lengths to be offered. ie multiple options so you can pick what best suits your situation - long cable for those with trailers, short cables for those that just want to pull into a Tesla supercharger and use the cable that belongs with the stall your parked in...instead of the next stall over blocking a stall.

With a few cable lengths offered, you can do your own optimization of length and cost to suit what you need. Maybe two cables can be linked together - put a 4 foot and 6 foot in the back under the seats and if you need one or the other or both you still have what you need.
I don't want an adapter built in - to me it should be NACS both ends and if you need an adapter you already have that likely.
That way the cables have more options, ie use with Tesla or with the Lightning, hook them together to get more length for trailer set up. More options is best.

 

[Sgt. Carter]

Check out Tom Moloughney‘s report.

 

[Shmoe]

I am watching and hope for a few lengths to be offered. ie multiple options so you can pick what best suits your situation - long cable for those with trailers, short cables for those that just want to pull into a Tesla supercharger and use the cable that belongs with the stall your parked in...instead of the next stall over blocking a stall.

With a few cable lengths offered, you can do your own optimization of length and cost to suit what you need. Maybe two cables can be linked together - put a 4 foot and 6 foot in the back under the seats and if you need one or the other or both you still have what you need.
I don't want an adapter built in - to me it should be NACS both ends and if you need an adapter you already have that likely.
That way the cables have more options, ie use with Tesla or with the Lightning, hook them together to get more length for trailer set up. More options is best.

Daisychaining these sounds like a recipe for Level 2 speeds

 

[RickLightning]

There won't be choices, there will be one length of about 5'. It will result in slower charging, especially in hot weather. They expect limited demand given the expected high price.

 

[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

I wonder if the cable will be temperture sensing - ie during -40 winter charging, no reduction in charge speed vs hot summer weather...

 

[RickLightning]

I wonder if the cable will be temperture sensing - ie during -40 winter charging, no reduction in charge speed vs hot summer weather...

It has multiple temp sensors. That is why when it has to, it tells the vehicle and EVSE to slow down, until it cools.

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